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Town Pantheon
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Vael
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Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 10:02 am    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Xaspian wrote:
The 'Power Level' scale is probably going to need a re-vamp. At the moment, it's got different levels of god as examples, but we're using the power level to determine level of god, so it's kinda circular.

Not really. Being higher ranked in the pantheon doesn't actually give you any power, it just gives you a rank and says "this person is about right here in terms of capability."

Also, while the easy requirements for monsters allows people to get involved with very little effort, the monster status (in my opinion) isn't exactly a very prestigious or significant one.
Lets use an example here.
Polyphemus the cyclops was a part of the pantheon, technically, but you didn't see him with any good ties or influence except through one deity, Poseidon (who he was related to). Sure, you can get into the pantheon easily, but it isn't like you'll be able to do much with that status.
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The Herald
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree, Vael. I don't think Polyphemus was part of the pantheon. He was certainly part of the mythology surrounding the Olympian pantheon, but I wouldn't say he was a part of it.
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Vael
Endless Fount of Characters


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eh, well the more "a part of the mythos" feel is what we're going for here.

Besides, people complained when I made it too exclusive- now that it is easier to get in, people are complaining about that.
What do you want done here?
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Wukei
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bookboy wrote:
Yeah, maybe have a size reuirement on monster?  Or a non-humanoid?  'cause usually they tend to be either VERY BIG (Fenris, World Serpent, Hydra, etc...) or blatantly not human (minotaur, I know there are more...), or, most often, both.


Fenrisulfr (Fenrir, in the Town, not Fenris) and his brother Jormungandr (which I believe was only referred to as the World Serpent once in Town) aren't actually that big in this world.

Y'know...I've always wondered why the 'real' versions of them were so huge compared to their sister...
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Deadly
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really not sure what I'd prefer, regarding how exclusive and expansive to make it. On one hand it could be interesting to have it like it is suggested so far, where we'll end up having everyone and their mother somehow part of the mythos... with more or less creative justifications. It even makes sense, because in a way every character is part of the Town and helps shape it, so of course they should be in the Town mythos somewhere... at the bottom of the ranks atleast.

On the other hand it would be nice if this was actually something really exclusive, where you actually have to earn your place in the pantheon through actions, not stats.

I'm not sure. I'm also afraid that making it too complex will diminish our chances of ever seeing it in action, and making it last more than a week. Who wants to read through pages upon pages of rules regarding entry into the pantheon? We're generally not very happy about rules around here, I think, so the simpler we can keep it the better.

But that aside, a few thoughts did strike me. Perhaps you merely have to be recognised as a deity, not necessarily have worshipers. Maybe split it up in "Demigod" and "God" of Town, where to be a "demigod" you simply have to be recognised as having the power and right to have a place in the Town pantheon, while to be a "God" you need some worshipers in Town. Active PC worshipers. Could group it more by having Lesser and Greater deities by their number of worshipers.

Could add Personification, where you need to be recognised and have a strict focus. A personification is not really a personification if noone recognises you as such. I'm really not sure about the Monster, it's too ambiguous.

Also, something I think is important. This is a Town pantheon. I think it's important that those characters who are part of this are actively taking an interest in Town, somehow. Actively doing something for Town. A good example would be Iames, who clearly has an interest in Town and does a lot to affect Town. Doesn't have to be good intentions, maybe you're a god bent on turning Town into a center of crime and actively working to make it so. Could be anything, but it's more than just living in Town.

I think it's important that you have an interest in Town, and actively work to reach your goals and ideas for Town. If you can't do that much, if you never do anything to actively influence matters in Town, then obviously you have no place in a Town pantheon.

So... my suggestion, quickly summarized:

There are three categories within the Town pantheon

God: You need to be recognised as a god of Town, and have atleast one active PC-controlled worshiper other than your own characters. In addition you have to have a clear interest in Town, and actively work either directly or through worshipers to influence matters in Town. Gods with more than 5 active PC worshipers are considered Greater Gods.

Demigod: You need to be recognised as a god or higher being of Town, but not necessarily have worshipers. You do need to have a clear interest in Town, the same way a God does.

Personification: You need to be recognised as a personification. You need to have a strict, and narrow focus on one matter. This could be anything, from the classic Death to green oranges or dolls, but it has to be narrow and it has to have a relevance to Town. Your interest in Town comes from your focus' relevance to Town, meaning that you don't necessarily care about Town itself, but your focus involves you actively in Town matters. An example would be Death, who likely cares little about Town but since Town has a lot of deaths (NPC deaths anyway) he's drawn here nonetheless.

Something along those lines, perhaps. Not sure if it should be expanded, but I've tried to keep it simple.
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Destro Yersul
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under Deadly's method of definition, I'd say Destro would fit personification. Just for the record.

He's got a focus (Necromancy) and most people recognize him as such. Course his interest in Town is cause he and his friends live there... Though there are a fair number of Necromancers kicking around.
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well that was pretty much what I was aiming for already... the only difference is that I changed "demi-god" for "monster" and didn't specify that personifications had to be related and working within Town (which is what I had intended, but meh). =P

My thought about the current system is this: sure, you can get IN easily, but actually moving up and taking that status and using it to do something would be a fair bit harder. So it works both ways- anyone can get in, but it is much harder to actually be influential.
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me clear something up.


While I have the entry requirements mostly thought out, that's hardly all there is to the pantheon. I want there to be inner workings to the pantheon, I want there to be scheming and rules crafted by its members- all kinds of things that will make it interesting and more difficult to get through its ranks, and to give them something to scheme with.
Perhaps after a certain point of advancement, you have to get supporters from within the pantheon to move on. Possibly they will set tests for you, or require bribes.

I'm thinking it will take the form of a very loose and possibly corrupt republic, where the person on top can be thwarted by more of those who are lower (but technically has the most power), where advancement is determined not only by merit but by support, but yet everyone ends up having a say.
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Deadly
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just thinking, if you don't have the influence then what are you doing in the Town pantheon at all? Once you do get influence, through your actions and possibly worshipers, then you get that prestigious spot but not before.

It makes it a little more interesting, and simpler to manage, I think.

I do agree that the scheming and everything could be interesing, I just feel that we need to keep the pantheon itself simple.
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadly wrote:
I'm just thinking, if you don't have the influence then what are you doing in the Town pantheon at all? Once you do get influence, through your actions and possibly worshipers, then you get that prestigious spot but not before.

It makes it a little more interesting, and simpler to manage, I think.

I do agree that the scheming and everything could be interesing, I just feel that we need to keep the pantheon itself simple.

If we limit the pantheon too much, there won't be enough people to get in.
However...
My thought is that the least influential people will basically (for the most part) probably be falling into support categories. Rather than standing on their own, they cling to someone more powerful who benefits from their dependence on them, but also might give them the chance to advance at some point.
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Deadly
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we want the same thing, more or less, in different ways. I want the pantheon more limited, much like the counsil is rather small, and have most of the action happen outside the pantheon itself as part of the normal Town action. Of course, that requires people to play along, which is why it's so important that the gods of the pantheon are very active and interested in Town, because otherwise I don't think we'll ever get this moving anywhere.

The gods of Town have to go out and influence Town and get others to take an interest in the pantheon in return.


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