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Shadow of the Sun
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

I think Gent would fit well as a god of providence. I mean, he does provide for a lot of people...
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Moxie
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PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regina, Trickster Goddess(?)

I mean, c'mon, she's pretty much a pathological liar that does things and deceives people with new stories about what happens to her. At least having her as the trickster goddess gives me an excuse for how she gets amnesia and wakes up thinking she's a jet-fighter pilot. She's just pulling shit for the sole reason of her trickery.

I need Worshippers, however, so, free spells to anyone willing to join a Church Idiotarum. Bards, Theives, Illusionists, Sometimes mages that have benefited from her books on Blood Magic and Mindscapes, schemers and chessmasters, and a certain type of goat cheese maker ((Feta)) are all fine candidates for clerics.
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Renom
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could make Cero god of crazy inhuman plant things...but he needs some follwers...
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Keledrath
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mox, sign JR up.  As long as it isn't too binding, he's in.  The moment it is, the Freedom aspect kicks in.
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, to keep interest going...
To me, there has always seemed to be three to four levels of deific entities- I think DnD, for the most part, has it right on the spot.
I propose we make four, for now at least. So, the progressions.

The base requirement to get into the pantheon (and start any progression) is this:
1) Power Level 6 (Demigod, 31+ ECL)
2) Immortality or extremely long life span.
3) Qualify for the first level of any progression (so you can have a rank)

Deific Rating
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Class I, Deific Entity: One cleric/devout worshiper PC/NPC (which may be played by anyone- including the creator of the deity. They do not have to be a major character- they could simply be an NPC tied to a temple, but they must be specifically known, named, and fleshed out a little. Think Cosmo)

Class II, Demigod: Three worshipers. This includes the prior PC/NPC, but must also include two more worshipers, which must not be played by by the creator of the deity. These worshipers must also not be played by the same person.

Class III, Deity: Six worshipers. This includes the prior three. Two of these must be unique worshipers played by new and separate players, while one can be played by any of those already involved in the temple.

Class IV, Archdeity: Nine worshipers. This includes the prior six. One of these must be a unique worshiper played by a new, separate player. The other two may be played by anyone who is not already playing two worshipers.



Monster Rating
Spoiler:

Class I, Empowered Entity. No additional requirements.

Class II, Greater Entity. Power Rating 7.

Class III, Divine Entity. Power Rating 8.

Class IV, Paragon. Power Rating 9.



Personification Rating
Spoiler:

Class I, Called. Has a clear goal or idea that they follow. They consistently follow their beliefs in this area and are generally known for it (think Paladin's code).

Class II, Devoted. They must have proved their devotion to their cause through some drastic test either produced by circumstance, or undergone willingly. (Think of Odin sacrificing his eye to drink of the well of wisdom, or Ghandi repeatedly fasting to bring about his goals and to demonstrate nonviolence.)

Class III, Embodiment. The entity has shed a normal form and permanently becomes something that symbolizes whatever they represent. (Think of Death as the reaper, and the Fates as the weavers.) They must live in a way that continually promotes their cause.

Class IV, Incarnation. The entity has become one with whatever they represent. They may make avatars, but for the most part simply live out as their cause, manipulating it indirectly.
(I realize this may be hard or even unwanted to roleplay, but it seems the logical progression. Should anyone have a better suggestion...)



This is all still in the works, and I'd like comments, suggestions (for names and requirements), especially for the Personification ratings, since they're so vague and hard to determine.
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it. If agreed upon, it should produce some interesting results.

I also like the idea of there being different ranks in the pantheon, that those higher up on those scales might either look down upon, or teach and nurture, those lower down.

Here's a possible issue - what happens if more than one deity has the same 'aspect' on the personification scale? I imagine that you could have plenty of called, but I doubt if there would be more than one embodiment or incarnation (unless a part of a group that collectively embodies the aspect).

Similarly, I guess, can characters worship more than one deity? If so, does this count as a devout enough to be a 'devout worshipper' on the Deific scale for each of those gods?
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Keledrath
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One question, about a mostly unique case:  Would Xand fall under diety (technically he is soon to be one), or personification (of magicka [all forms of magic])?
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I saw it, a member of the pantheon could be at varying states of several progressions... So he could be both.

But does Xand really have the required worshippers to be that far in the Deific progression?
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You maintain the ranks of any progression, but the most prominent and powerful of those progressions is what you're referred to, though in many cases the title of Deity trumps the others just because it changes how someone is viewed.
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the 'gods' should, in some way, at least, be bound by the kind of progression(s) they are on. So, in some respects, a Deific god could be bound to a certain extent by their mortal followers. The personification progression is already bound to living by the ideals/whatever.

Is it possible for a character to refuse god-hood? If a character who fulfils the requirements finds himself (or herself) the object of worship of several characters, beoming a class II on the deific progression - a demi-god - do they have the right to refuse the worship?

Another point - I would assume that progressing up the scales (apart from 'monster') doesn't actually result in the god becoming more powerful in the sense of physical or magical ability. Naturally, having worshippers gives you power over a number of people, but would it really make you yourself more powerful? Becoming an Inarnation might give you more influence over the aspect, but doesn't particularly make you much more powerful in generaly. If it did, then it would mean that, by advancing your deific or personification ratings, then your monster rating could automatically increase too, which seems odd.

((Is that contributing enough for you, Vael? =
Of course, I guess that a lot of this is either extremely obvious, or has already been said in ways that I was too stupid to understand. Still, I might as well try.))
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bound in what way? How? Explain?

If you somehow manage to actually still be worshiped and deified in the eyes of a large number of people while attempting to refuse and deny your deity status, you're still going to be a deity. Granted, you'll deny that you're a deity, but pretty much everyone else is going to see you as one.
It should be noted, however, that this isn't forcing your character into anything. The ranks are less "if this happens your character must become this" but instead "people who have achieved this are generally regarded as this." It demonstrates how others will likely react to you, it doesn't define what your character truly is.
However, the pantheon might start registering people by class and progression if they get more serious, and I'm sure the issue will be resolved then.

For your last point- again, the progressions and ranks listed here are classifications. We do not say you gain or have power if you have this rank, merely that this is what you are considered to be when you have achieved this certain prerequisite. How the character gains any of the prerequisites, and whether any of them is tied to another prerequisite, is left entirely up to the player.

((And you're asking questions and I'm giving answers. It's still ME making it all. You'll contribute when you actually make something. =P))
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TO be honest I don't really know what I meant by 'bound'. It sounded better in my head, but it wasn't well thought through.
As to your other points - fair enough.

I had thought a little bit about how gods come to exist. There seem to be three general types. (And be aware that I'm stealing some of the names from other places, so shut up, Os.)

Elder Gods - These are the ones who were there all along. They came into being as gods, with the relevant powers. They powers might change over time, but they were never 'mortal'.
Children of the Gods - Those who inherit powers from their parents. They tend to have these powers/classifications only because of their lineage, rather than themselves. Of course, they can rise (or fall) in the ranks on their own, too. (Note - not all children of gods are necessarily gods themselves. They could just be 'normal', depending on the player, I guess.)
Ascendants - Mortals who gain godhood through some means. Maybe they achieved power by their own right, or 'stole' it somehow from another god.

Eh, it's just ideas. And doesn't really affect your three ratings. But I think it would be useful to have terms to describe how they 'became' gods.
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Osnagard
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, I already explained that system to Vael over pm (^_^) so no worries about stealing things... I already stole 'em!

Now then, I think I know what you meant by bound, or at least would like to suggest my interpretation of it.

A god, of any kind, is bound to it's followers. The relationship isn't neccessarily that of god has power over fawning worshipers, but the worshipers have power over the god too.

Without that, the being wouldn't even be a god right? So you have to keep them happy.

So I think what I'm getting at is this: If you have a god of say.... turnips (because I picked something random) and the followers are all turnip farmers. And then there is a famine, resulting in theft of turnips from the neighbours farm. Well now the turnip farmer turned theif is still going to worship and pray to their same god, but the aspect has changed slightly. It's no longer god of "Growing turnips" but now more like, god of "Turnips goten by any means necessary.

That made a whole lot more sense in my head.. but I think the point still comes across. The followers will have some kind of control or effect on the exactness or extent of the god's intrest.

*Goes off to make the "god of turnips", then have a follower get into a fight to force the turnip god to become "god of turnips and war"*
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Vael
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of how Aesa added "Lust" to her titles because all of her followers decided it would be awesome to get some every eight hours or so. =P

Last edited by Vael on Fri May 09, 2008 1:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Osnagard
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, exactly!

That way there is something in it for the people who decide to follow a god too, they can effect the focus of the god!

*Hopes I have helped add something to the system now ^_^*
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Wraith
A Shadow of his Former Self


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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is starting to sound suspiciously like Discworld...

I just finished Small Gods about an hour ago, so this thread is particuarly interesting for me.
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Wukei
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh...let's not make it like Small Gods and say we did...
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Vael
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, lets not make it like Small Gods and say we didn't. =P

Last edited by Vael on Sat May 10, 2008 6:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ValdisRequiem
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darn, Vael, you beat me =P
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Wraith
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It wasn't my favorite Discworld book, but it wasn't bad...

Although, death by flying turtle was pretty inventive, I have to admit.
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Wukei
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more comment, then I'll leave the thread alone:

I'm saying that I don't like the way the artist writes, not that the storyline wasn't good.
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Keledrath
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just thinking, and we may want to add something to the monster section.  As is, roughly half the  Town qualifies for at least Class One.
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 'Power Level' scale is probably going to need a re-vamp. At the moment, it's got different levels of god as examples, but we're using the power level to determine level of god, so it's kinda circular.

Either that, or the Monster scale needs some extra requirements, as BB said.
Maybe... Maybe something about Monsters being separate from 'mortals', somehow? It might intrude a bit on 'personification', but 'monsters' in pantheons tend to be that - obviously different from mortals, don't they? So, the higher up the scale, the more they stand out.

I dunno, it would probably be too tricky to implement, and the premise might be flawed anyway. Just a thought.
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Keledrath
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, maybe have a size reuirement on monster?  Or a non-humanoid?  'cause usually they tend to be either VERY BIG (Fenris, World Serpent, Hydra, etc...) or blatantly not human (minotaur, I know there are more...), or, most often, both.
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Xaspian
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although, in Vael's initial post about the three types, Heracles was classed as both 'Monster' and 'Deity', and I wouldn't say he's particularly big or non-humanoid...

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