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Vael

Town Pantheon

This was mentioned in the Plot Plotting thread, but I thought I'd bring it here to get it to people's attention and interest again.
Now, there are plenty of gods in Town, but I was thinking it would be interesting to make a collection of gods of Town. Sure Pelor is a god, but he's not in the pantheon of Town because there's hardly anyone (if any at all, actually) who worships him in Town. I think it would be interesting to differentiate between Gods in and of Town, and perhaps increase interaction and understanding of how the different religions of Town work.

My proposal in the Plot thread was that to be considered a God in general, you need a few things:

1) Power
A character needs power enough to be a deity. It doesn't need to be magic power- look at Heracles. It doesn't need to be supernatural power- look at the Pharoahs and Xerxes, who claimed deific nature through masses of minions and authority.

2) Fame and Worshipers
To be a deity one needs to be widely known, for people to recognize them and their power. Without fame, you simply don't have enough support to achieve any kind of recognition at all in the status of a people. Worshipers are needed for people to begin to acknowledge and promote you as a deity, so that you won't merely be some powerful spirit or entity. (Such as the Norns, the Muses, and the personification of Death).

3) A Goal or Emphasized Aspect
A powerful character needs something to represent- you can't just be a god of being a god. You need something obvious about your drive and nature for people to look at and recognize. Aphrodite would be rather pointless without love and lust, while Odin wouldn't be worth worshiping without his wisdom. You need to be a god OF something, and that something needs to be widely recognized.


Now, what really needs to be settled is what would make a god a part of the Town pantheon. I think it would require that they have worshipers and fame within the Town, of course... but I'm lost on specifics.

Also, I need to know if anyone is interested in this, or if I'm just speaking to air. Where would we take the Town Pantheon idea? Who would want to join it? Who could join it, and who might be interested in moving towards joining it?
The Chilli God

The best I can say for this proposal is that I am interested in its progress and, if it is possible, would be interested in moving myself/Chilli towards joining it.
Deadly

Sounds like an interesting idea. Another thing we could consider is the possibility of someone becoming part of the pantheon by less than normal means... maybe by force or trickery. This could open up some interesting roleplaying possibilities, like killing a Town god and taking his/her place, or tricking people into worshiping you, or other seedy approaches to godhood. Of course something like that would fall under the normal rules of fair play in Town.

Another thing that needs to be settled is what it actually means to be a god of Town. Will it provide any kind of privilege or power (IC and/or OOC) not otherwise available, or will it be purely symbolic?
Keledrath

The issue I can see with fame is that that is a really hard thing to manage.  You can't say "I make this character, who's a really famous god everyone's heard of", because that's godmodding your character into other people's knowledge.
Vael

Deadly- I have no intention of allowing this to give OOC authority or status. It might give some kind of IC power, but only through association with other gods. IE, instead of being a new god all alone, you are a franchise god. Wink
However, depending on what the pantheon does, it might influence those who join it.
And yes, getting in through force or trickery could be fun. ^-~

BB- That's exactly the point. Becoming a town deity IS a hard thing to do, and there isn't anyone really famous like that until you introduce them. This requires time, patience, and participation in Town that any god should have.
This isn't something that you can have a character join on a whim.
Keledrath

Except that sometimes it fits tha background.  Slishhtak, for example, lacks worshipers or fame because he's been dead for a really long time.  Xand lacks fame because he's been fissioned for roughly the same amount of time.
Vael

The people of Town come from so many backgrounds and places that really the only way to gain fame in Town is to come TO Town. It hasn't existed for very long at all, so you can't argue that anything is from all of their pasts.
Hence the need for fame built IC and OOC.
The Herald

This sounds cool. I'm up for it.
Vael

Still, I'm hoping someone will have suggestions for specific requirements.
Xaspian

A temple (or equivalent site of worship) within Town. Fairly basic.
At least on PC priest/worshipper/supplicant.
wxdruid

Well, I think that the requirements that Vael listed in the first post apply to three gods that we already have.

Merrant
Inari
Iames

All three are known to have plenty of power, all three are known to have worshippers, all three have an emphasis or goals and all three have a Temple in Town.

The above could possibly include Aesa.  She has gained followers, has a Temple (of sorts) in Town and she definitely has power and a focus.
The Chilli God

Getting to more specifics about Vael's requirements (albeit simple)...

Power: At least rank 6 (Demigod) on the Power rating system.
Fame: At least one 'cleric'. I don't think it's necessary to have any temples or anything - such bold declarations of worship don't do as well for worshippers of certain deities.
Portfolio: Must have one, defined in character profile.

As wxdruid said, even these few requirements would cut out a lot of the lesser deities already in town. So, to help the population of the pantheon, it could be made possible for greater deities to sponsor lesser ones into the pantheon, granting them influence in exchange for some form of allegience.
With any luck, this whole thing could then turn into a sort of 'guild war' for gods, with greater deities sponsoring as many lesser deities as possible and securing alliances with other greater deities to aid them against their adversaries. This could lead to a very interesting plot.
Keledrath

Issues being that the gods I do play (Xand and Slishhtak) have no reali interest in worshipers.  Technically, Xand grants spells for Keledrath, but since that's my own PC...

Slishhtak, meanwhile, doesn't gve a damn about clerics unless they're evil dragons of at least wyrm age.  He got his divinity the old fashioned, Time of Troubles-esque way.  Eating gods.
The Herald

Bookboy wrote:
Issues being that the gods I do play (Xand and Slishhtak) have no reali interest in worshipers.  Technically, Xand grants spells for Keledrath, but since that's my own PC...

And Iames grants spells to Lyrak, both of whom are played by me.
Keledrath

Then there's Tehanu.  Keledrath is the ONLY PC Xand grants spells to.
Xaspian

Well,Bookboy, maybe your characters don't have to be members of the Town's Pantheon?
This doesn't stop them from being gods, but it means that they can't get drinks from the minibar in the Town Gods' Clubhouse.
Kyrian

Well, at one time someone had mentioned something about having clerics that WEREN'T played by the same player.

Which means Kyr gets added to the list.
Vael

Bookboy wrote:
Issues being that the gods I do play (Xand and Slishhtak) have no reali interest in worshipers.  Technically, Xand grants spells for Keledrath, but since that's my own PC...

Slishhtak, meanwhile, doesn't gve a damn about clerics unless they're evil dragons of at least wyrm age.  He got his divinity the old fashioned, Time of Troubles-esque way.  Eating gods.

Then, in a proper pantheon (such as any mythos out there) they would not be gods. Slishhtak would more akin to the World Serpent, Jörmungandr, while Xand might just be some powerful personification or distant entity like Father Time, the Grim Reaper, or a Titan.

This is my point. You can have deific entities of largely divine power, but without people saying that they are gods, and worshiping them as such, they fail to actually function as gods, even if they are or could be gods. Even if those two could grant spells to worshipers, they can't be gods without actually fulfilling requirements necessary to be gods.


Now personally, I believe it would be best to have a requirement of multiple worshipers- perhaps like three.
It would go like this-
You must have three worshipers to be a god. One of these worshipers can be played by either 1) the player of the god, or 2) a person who already plays a worshiper/cleric.
This makes it so you have to have at least three players in consensus for someone becoming a god, which I think would be appropriate.
Vael

Okay okay okay okay.[/excited]
Having talked the issues over with everyone, I have an idea which would do a few things.
1) Make things a more accurate mythology/pantheon setting
2) Allow for a greater range of applicants and people who enter.


First off, let me point out all of my above posts.
The examples I made- Jörmungandr, the Norns, Titans- all of those sorts.
Well, they're a part of the pantheon and mythos too, are they not? While the heavily worshiped deities may be the inner circle and focused on aspect, this is merely because a lot of people worship them (and thus they get talked about.)
Picture it like this:
Celebrities are the most talked about people, yes? But are they the most important?
...not necessarily. They're simply celebrities because they are talked about.

Hence, I propose the following changes to the ideas.

-Entry into the Pantheon requires two things-
1) A power level of 6 or greater
2) Immortality (or some lifespan nearly the equivalent)

Beyond that, there will be ranks of influence, and several levels of progression that may or may not require worshipers.
You could, fo example, progress as a god. Lets say if you wanted demi-god status, you'd need all of the above and one worshiper.

Tentative idea:
Three trees of progression.

Deity
Monster
Personification

Each one would progress by using each different qualifier of what I have said a god needs.

Deities would need to progress by having a larger number of worshipers.

Monsters would progress by having a greater amount of power.

Personifications would need to progress by having a greater dedication and influence over a certain aspect or goal.

However, you could progress in multiple areas, though I would advise people not to go overboard. For example- Nike had followers, though she was a personification. This would be represented by having a few ranks of deity status.
Heracles was extremely powerful but had followers, so he would progress as a monster and a deity.
Typhon was a monster and powerful, but was also rumored to be the source of volcanic eruption, so he would be both a monster and a personification.
Etc.
Deities, methinks, would have greater influence over the population and people of Town simply because that is their nature- to influence and have people worship them, though certainly the others could exert their authority and power.
How these roles would fit and interact would become clear as the deities and pantheon began to fill out.

How does this sound?
Kyrian

That sounds a lot better.
Keledrath

Alright.  I plan on moving Xand's base here after the Plane of Nightmares plot, so he'll qualify for Diety.  Slishhtak is perfect for Moster.

Also, we may want to include something more.  Currently, get a big enough Dragon and boom, it's in the pantheon.
Vael

Well that's the point, really. Huge and powerful monsters WERE sort of parts of the pantheon and the mythos- Cyclops, for example.
Maybe some kind of divine spark would be required, though how we would determine whether someone has that...
Keledrath

Perhaps that's where TCG's Guild War idea comes in, with sponsor-esque alliances.

EX:  Slishhtak would "sponsor"  powerful chromatic dragons.
Shadow of the Sun

I think Sunn fits these requirements, although she's forsaken her immortality.

Gent certainly does.
Draken Frosthand

Gent fits a role similar to Ao in FR, I suppose. Overdeities, divine beings of Rank 21+ that don't grant spells.

Anyway.

I could add in the Leviathan of Spite, a deity I use for Mor'Illorum, it's got a temple whithin the castle... A high priest I play (Sszzass), and a few NPC clerics who are up to grabs around the area.

Fairly simple portfolio, misery, spite and strife.

-------------

My other powerful entities are monsters and abominations. Draken is an Evil that predates creation. Yes, Evil, starting with capital letter.
Shadow of the Sun

I think Gent would fit well as a god of providence. I mean, he does provide for a lot of people...
Moxie

Regina, Trickster Goddess(?)

I mean, c'mon, she's pretty much a pathological liar that does things and deceives people with new stories about what happens to her. At least having her as the trickster goddess gives me an excuse for how she gets amnesia and wakes up thinking she's a jet-fighter pilot. She's just pulling shit for the sole reason of her trickery.

I need Worshippers, however, so, free spells to anyone willing to join a Church Idiotarum. Bards, Theives, Illusionists, Sometimes mages that have benefited from her books on Blood Magic and Mindscapes, schemers and chessmasters, and a certain type of goat cheese maker ((Feta)) are all fine candidates for clerics.
Renom

I could make Cero god of crazy inhuman plant things...but he needs some follwers...
Keledrath

Mox, sign JR up.  As long as it isn't too binding, he's in.  The moment it is, the Freedom aspect kicks in.
Vael

Okay, to keep interest going...
To me, there has always seemed to be three to four levels of deific entities- I think DnD, for the most part, has it right on the spot.
I propose we make four, for now at least. So, the progressions.

The base requirement to get into the pantheon (and start any progression) is this:
1) Power Level 6 (Demigod, 31+ ECL)
2) Immortality or extremely long life span.
3) Qualify for the first level of any progression (so you can have a rank)

Deific Rating
Spoiler:

Class I, Deific Entity: One cleric/devout worshiper PC/NPC (which may be played by anyone- including the creator of the deity. They do not have to be a major character- they could simply be an NPC tied to a temple, but they must be specifically known, named, and fleshed out a little. Think Cosmo)

Class II, Demigod: Three worshipers. This includes the prior PC/NPC, but must also include two more worshipers, which must not be played by by the creator of the deity. These worshipers must also not be played by the same person.

Class III, Deity: Six worshipers. This includes the prior three. Two of these must be unique worshipers played by new and separate players, while one can be played by any of those already involved in the temple.

Class IV, Archdeity: Nine worshipers. This includes the prior six. One of these must be a unique worshiper played by a new, separate player. The other two may be played by anyone who is not already playing two worshipers.



Monster Rating
Spoiler:

Class I, Empowered Entity. No additional requirements.

Class II, Greater Entity. Power Rating 7.

Class III, Divine Entity. Power Rating 8.

Class IV, Paragon. Power Rating 9.



Personification Rating
Spoiler:

Class I, Called. Has a clear goal or idea that they follow. They consistently follow their beliefs in this area and are generally known for it (think Paladin's code).

Class II, Devoted. They must have proved their devotion to their cause through some drastic test either produced by circumstance, or undergone willingly. (Think of Odin sacrificing his eye to drink of the well of wisdom, or Ghandi repeatedly fasting to bring about his goals and to demonstrate nonviolence.)

Class III, Embodiment. The entity has shed a normal form and permanently becomes something that symbolizes whatever they represent. (Think of Death as the reaper, and the Fates as the weavers.) They must live in a way that continually promotes their cause.

Class IV, Incarnation. The entity has become one with whatever they represent. They may make avatars, but for the most part simply live out as their cause, manipulating it indirectly.
(I realize this may be hard or even unwanted to roleplay, but it seems the logical progression. Should anyone have a better suggestion...)



This is all still in the works, and I'd like comments, suggestions (for names and requirements), especially for the Personification ratings, since they're so vague and hard to determine.
Xaspian

I like it. If agreed upon, it should produce some interesting results.

I also like the idea of there being different ranks in the pantheon, that those higher up on those scales might either look down upon, or teach and nurture, those lower down.

Here's a possible issue - what happens if more than one deity has the same 'aspect' on the personification scale? I imagine that you could have plenty of called, but I doubt if there would be more than one embodiment or incarnation (unless a part of a group that collectively embodies the aspect).

Similarly, I guess, can characters worship more than one deity? If so, does this count as a devout enough to be a 'devout worshipper' on the Deific scale for each of those gods?
Keledrath

One question, about a mostly unique case:  Would Xand fall under diety (technically he is soon to be one), or personification (of magicka [all forms of magic])?
Xaspian

The way I saw it, a member of the pantheon could be at varying states of several progressions... So he could be both.

But does Xand really have the required worshippers to be that far in the Deific progression?
Vael

You maintain the ranks of any progression, but the most prominent and powerful of those progressions is what you're referred to, though in many cases the title of Deity trumps the others just because it changes how someone is viewed.
Xaspian

I think that the 'gods' should, in some way, at least, be bound by the kind of progression(s) they are on. So, in some respects, a Deific god could be bound to a certain extent by their mortal followers. The personification progression is already bound to living by the ideals/whatever.

Is it possible for a character to refuse god-hood? If a character who fulfils the requirements finds himself (or herself) the object of worship of several characters, beoming a class II on the deific progression - a demi-god - do they have the right to refuse the worship?

Another point - I would assume that progressing up the scales (apart from 'monster') doesn't actually result in the god becoming more powerful in the sense of physical or magical ability. Naturally, having worshippers gives you power over a number of people, but would it really make you yourself more powerful? Becoming an Inarnation might give you more influence over the aspect, but doesn't particularly make you much more powerful in generaly. If it did, then it would mean that, by advancing your deific or personification ratings, then your monster rating could automatically increase too, which seems odd.

((Is that contributing enough for you, Vael? =Ž
Of course, I guess that a lot of this is either extremely obvious, or has already been said in ways that I was too stupid to understand. Still, I might as well try.))
Vael

Bound in what way? How? Explain?

If you somehow manage to actually still be worshiped and deified in the eyes of a large number of people while attempting to refuse and deny your deity status, you're still going to be a deity. Granted, you'll deny that you're a deity, but pretty much everyone else is going to see you as one.
It should be noted, however, that this isn't forcing your character into anything. The ranks are less "if this happens your character must become this" but instead "people who have achieved this are generally regarded as this." It demonstrates how others will likely react to you, it doesn't define what your character truly is.
However, the pantheon might start registering people by class and progression if they get more serious, and I'm sure the issue will be resolved then.

For your last point- again, the progressions and ranks listed here are classifications. We do not say you gain or have power if you have this rank, merely that this is what you are considered to be when you have achieved this certain prerequisite. How the character gains any of the prerequisites, and whether any of them is tied to another prerequisite, is left entirely up to the player.

((And you're asking questions and I'm giving answers. It's still ME making it all. You'll contribute when you actually make something. =P))
Xaspian

TO be honest I don't really know what I meant by 'bound'. It sounded better in my head, but it wasn't well thought through.
As to your other points - fair enough.

I had thought a little bit about how gods come to exist. There seem to be three general types. (And be aware that I'm stealing some of the names from other places, so shut up, Os.)

Elder Gods - These are the ones who were there all along. They came into being as gods, with the relevant powers. They powers might change over time, but they were never 'mortal'.
Children of the Gods - Those who inherit powers from their parents. They tend to have these powers/classifications only because of their lineage, rather than themselves. Of course, they can rise (or fall) in the ranks on their own, too. (Note - not all children of gods are necessarily gods themselves. They could just be 'normal', depending on the player, I guess.)
Ascendants - Mortals who gain godhood through some means. Maybe they achieved power by their own right, or 'stole' it somehow from another god.

Eh, it's just ideas. And doesn't really affect your three ratings. But I think it would be useful to have terms to describe how they 'became' gods.
Osnagard

Haha, I already explained that system to Vael over pm (^_^) so no worries about stealing things... I already stole 'em!

Now then, I think I know what you meant by bound, or at least would like to suggest my interpretation of it.

A god, of any kind, is bound to it's followers. The relationship isn't neccessarily that of god has power over fawning worshipers, but the worshipers have power over the god too.

Without that, the being wouldn't even be a god right? So you have to keep them happy.

So I think what I'm getting at is this: If you have a god of say.... turnips (because I picked something random) and the followers are all turnip farmers. And then there is a famine, resulting in theft of turnips from the neighbours farm. Well now the turnip farmer turned theif is still going to worship and pray to their same god, but the aspect has changed slightly. It's no longer god of "Growing turnips" but now more like, god of "Turnips goten by any means necessary.

That made a whole lot more sense in my head.. but I think the point still comes across. The followers will have some kind of control or effect on the exactness or extent of the god's intrest.

*Goes off to make the "god of turnips", then have a follower get into a fight to force the turnip god to become "god of turnips and war"*
Vael

Sort of how Aesa added "Lust" to her titles because all of her followers decided it would be awesome to get some every eight hours or so. =P
Osnagard

Haha, exactly!

That way there is something in it for the people who decide to follow a god too, they can effect the focus of the god!

*Hopes I have helped add something to the system now ^_^*
Wraith

This is starting to sound suspiciously like Discworld...

I just finished Small Gods about an hour ago, so this thread is particuarly interesting for me.
Wukei

Ugh...let's not make it like Small Gods and say we did...
Vael

Actually, lets not make it like Small Gods and say we didn't. =P
ValdisRequiem

Darn, Vael, you beat me =P
Wraith

It wasn't my favorite Discworld book, but it wasn't bad...

Although, death by flying turtle was pretty inventive, I have to admit.
Wukei

One more comment, then I'll leave the thread alone:

I'm saying that I don't like the way the artist writes, not that the storyline wasn't good.
Keledrath

Just thinking, and we may want to add something to the monster section.  As is, roughly half the  Town qualifies for at least Class One.
Xaspian

The 'Power Level' scale is probably going to need a re-vamp. At the moment, it's got different levels of god as examples, but we're using the power level to determine level of god, so it's kinda circular.

Either that, or the Monster scale needs some extra requirements, as BB said.
Maybe... Maybe something about Monsters being separate from 'mortals', somehow? It might intrude a bit on 'personification', but 'monsters' in pantheons tend to be that - obviously different from mortals, don't they? So, the higher up the scale, the more they stand out.

I dunno, it would probably be too tricky to implement, and the premise might be flawed anyway. Just a thought.
Keledrath

Yeah, maybe have a size reuirement on monster?  Or a non-humanoid?  'cause usually they tend to be either VERY BIG (Fenris, World Serpent, Hydra, etc...) or blatantly not human (minotaur, I know there are more...), or, most often, both.
Xaspian

Although, in Vael's initial post about the three types, Heracles was classed as both 'Monster' and 'Deity', and I wouldn't say he's particularly big or non-humanoid...
Vael

Xaspian wrote:
The 'Power Level' scale is probably going to need a re-vamp. At the moment, it's got different levels of god as examples, but we're using the power level to determine level of god, so it's kinda circular.

Not really. Being higher ranked in the pantheon doesn't actually give you any power, it just gives you a rank and says "this person is about right here in terms of capability."

Also, while the easy requirements for monsters allows people to get involved with very little effort, the monster status (in my opinion) isn't exactly a very prestigious or significant one.
Lets use an example here.
Polyphemus the cyclops was a part of the pantheon, technically, but you didn't see him with any good ties or influence except through one deity, Poseidon (who he was related to). Sure, you can get into the pantheon easily, but it isn't like you'll be able to do much with that status.
The Herald

I disagree, Vael. I don't think Polyphemus was part of the pantheon. He was certainly part of the mythology surrounding the Olympian pantheon, but I wouldn't say he was a part of it.
Vael

Eh, well the more "a part of the mythos" feel is what we're going for here.

Besides, people complained when I made it too exclusive- now that it is easier to get in, people are complaining about that.
What do you want done here?
Wukei

Bookboy wrote:
Yeah, maybe have a size reuirement on monster?  Or a non-humanoid?  'cause usually they tend to be either VERY BIG (Fenris, World Serpent, Hydra, etc...) or blatantly not human (minotaur, I know there are more...), or, most often, both.


Fenrisulfr (Fenrir, in the Town, not Fenris) and his brother Jormungandr (which I believe was only referred to as the World Serpent once in Town) aren't actually that big in this world.

Y'know...I've always wondered why the 'real' versions of them were so huge compared to their sister...
Deadly

I'm really not sure what I'd prefer, regarding how exclusive and expansive to make it. On one hand it could be interesting to have it like it is suggested so far, where we'll end up having everyone and their mother somehow part of the mythos... with more or less creative justifications. It even makes sense, because in a way every character is part of the Town and helps shape it, so of course they should be in the Town mythos somewhere... at the bottom of the ranks atleast.

On the other hand it would be nice if this was actually something really exclusive, where you actually have to earn your place in the pantheon through actions, not stats.

I'm not sure. I'm also afraid that making it too complex will diminish our chances of ever seeing it in action, and making it last more than a week. Who wants to read through pages upon pages of rules regarding entry into the pantheon? We're generally not very happy about rules around here, I think, so the simpler we can keep it the better.

But that aside, a few thoughts did strike me. Perhaps you merely have to be recognised as a deity, not necessarily have worshipers. Maybe split it up in "Demigod" and "God" of Town, where to be a "demigod" you simply have to be recognised as having the power and right to have a place in the Town pantheon, while to be a "God" you need some worshipers in Town. Active PC worshipers. Could group it more by having Lesser and Greater deities by their number of worshipers.

Could add Personification, where you need to be recognised and have a strict focus. A personification is not really a personification if noone recognises you as such. I'm really not sure about the Monster, it's too ambiguous.

Also, something I think is important. This is a Town pantheon. I think it's important that those characters who are part of this are actively taking an interest in Town, somehow. Actively doing something for Town. A good example would be Iames, who clearly has an interest in Town and does a lot to affect Town. Doesn't have to be good intentions, maybe you're a god bent on turning Town into a center of crime and actively working to make it so. Could be anything, but it's more than just living in Town.

I think it's important that you have an interest in Town, and actively work to reach your goals and ideas for Town. If you can't do that much, if you never do anything to actively influence matters in Town, then obviously you have no place in a Town pantheon.

So... my suggestion, quickly summarized:

There are three categories within the Town pantheon

God: You need to be recognised as a god of Town, and have atleast one active PC-controlled worshiper other than your own characters. In addition you have to have a clear interest in Town, and actively work either directly or through worshipers to influence matters in Town. Gods with more than 5 active PC worshipers are considered Greater Gods.

Demigod: You need to be recognised as a god or higher being of Town, but not necessarily have worshipers. You do need to have a clear interest in Town, the same way a God does.

Personification: You need to be recognised as a personification. You need to have a strict, and narrow focus on one matter. This could be anything, from the classic Death to green oranges or dolls, but it has to be narrow and it has to have a relevance to Town. Your interest in Town comes from your focus' relevance to Town, meaning that you don't necessarily care about Town itself, but your focus involves you actively in Town matters. An example would be Death, who likely cares little about Town but since Town has a lot of deaths (NPC deaths anyway) he's drawn here nonetheless.

Something along those lines, perhaps. Not sure if it should be expanded, but I've tried to keep it simple.
Destro Yersul

Under Deadly's method of definition, I'd say Destro would fit personification. Just for the record.

He's got a focus (Necromancy) and most people recognize him as such. Course his interest in Town is cause he and his friends live there... Though there are a fair number of Necromancers kicking around.
Vael

Well that was pretty much what I was aiming for already... the only difference is that I changed "demi-god" for "monster" and didn't specify that personifications had to be related and working within Town (which is what I had intended, but meh). =P

My thought about the current system is this: sure, you can get IN easily, but actually moving up and taking that status and using it to do something would be a fair bit harder. So it works both ways- anyone can get in, but it is much harder to actually be influential.
Vael

Let me clear something up.


While I have the entry requirements mostly thought out, that's hardly all there is to the pantheon. I want there to be inner workings to the pantheon, I want there to be scheming and rules crafted by its members- all kinds of things that will make it interesting and more difficult to get through its ranks, and to give them something to scheme with.
Perhaps after a certain point of advancement, you have to get supporters from within the pantheon to move on. Possibly they will set tests for you, or require bribes.

I'm thinking it will take the form of a very loose and possibly corrupt republic, where the person on top can be thwarted by more of those who are lower (but technically has the most power), where advancement is determined not only by merit but by support, but yet everyone ends up having a say.
Deadly

I'm just thinking, if you don't have the influence then what are you doing in the Town pantheon at all? Once you do get influence, through your actions and possibly worshipers, then you get that prestigious spot but not before.

It makes it a little more interesting, and simpler to manage, I think.

I do agree that the scheming and everything could be interesing, I just feel that we need to keep the pantheon itself simple.
Vael

Deadly wrote:
I'm just thinking, if you don't have the influence then what are you doing in the Town pantheon at all? Once you do get influence, through your actions and possibly worshipers, then you get that prestigious spot but not before.

It makes it a little more interesting, and simpler to manage, I think.

I do agree that the scheming and everything could be interesing, I just feel that we need to keep the pantheon itself simple.

If we limit the pantheon too much, there won't be enough people to get in.
However...
My thought is that the least influential people will basically (for the most part) probably be falling into support categories. Rather than standing on their own, they cling to someone more powerful who benefits from their dependence on them, but also might give them the chance to advance at some point.
Deadly

I think we want the same thing, more or less, in different ways. I want the pantheon more limited, much like the counsil is rather small, and have most of the action happen outside the pantheon itself as part of the normal Town action. Of course, that requires people to play along, which is why it's so important that the gods of the pantheon are very active and interested in Town, because otherwise I don't think we'll ever get this moving anywhere.

The gods of Town have to go out and influence Town and get others to take an interest in the pantheon in return.

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