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Deadly

Town Campaign Setting (Enupnion Setting)

Ok... new fancy idea: The Town Collaborative Campaign Setting Very Happy

That's long and complex. The idea is to do something along the lines of the Tears of Blood campaign setting over at GitP, where everyone can help form an entire campaign setting. Our own Campaign Setting, with maps, places, gods, races, classes, whatever. But there's more...

Once said setting is developed enough, a new sub forum could be made, similar to Modern Town and Meta Town, where we could play in this setting we've created. Still freeform playing, but in a formalised setting.

So... any thoughts? Is this completely crazy? Or brilliant? Razz
Exachix

You know what.
I con't belive what you're saying.
That's one of the most...

- Best idea's i've heard all day Disclaimer: I've not actually heard any ideas today.

Why not?!
Wukei

I'll do art for anything...symbols for gods, etc...please love my art again...


I..just realized how whiny I act when I'm bored....
Deadly

Thanks Exy Smile

And we do love your art, Wukei.... I do, atleast.
Vael

I only hate your art when it stops being made, Wukei. Wink

So should we make a creation forum for it, or would you like to do it a different way?
Wukei

...I've been sick

I can't draw when I'm sick...ask the picture of Kio.
Moozy

I like the idea of doing a kind of Tears of Blood thing for Enupnion - like a whole homebrew world?

But there's no reason to make it separate from the Town - make the Town in it. It's always been hard to describe backstories and pretty much impossible to tell someone which direction The Woods is in from Trog's Tavern (as an example), as we never had a map that really became popular and used. If we were to make a whole campaign world, why not use it for the Town? That way, instead of saying "I grew up in a village north of the Town," you can say "I grew up in [insert village's name here], [#] miles north of the Town *points to map*", and so on.
Exachix

That's an idea.

I Claim a forest about 2/3 days ride from town with mountains to the east side =P. ((Ylara))

Anyway... Yes. I agree with Moozy/Blood. and I think a new forum for the world-crafting would be good.
Xaspian

Hmm. I guess those characters from other worlds, or those that don't fit in with the Land/World (name suggestion?) can just be explain away by falling through magical portals, etc.?
Timberwolf

yep, the girlies chased each other to the town, trying to kill each other the whole time across more planes than heathrow Airport. Anyway, yeah, that's how I explained them Xaspian.
Vael

I think you guys are misunderstanding. He wants to create this so everything WILL make sense together- unlike Town, everything will have the same history, the same flavor... it's all from the same place.
Deadly

Vael wrote:
I think you guys are misunderstanding. He wants to create this so everything WILL make sense together- unlike Town, everything will have the same history, the same flavor... it's all from the same place.


That was my thought, yes.

I like the other idea too, at the very least I think it's a very good idea to agree on an official map for the Town and it's surroundings. But I think this idea is a bit too much organising for the Town.

I suggest keeping the two ideas seperate: Make a map of Town, but also make this setting.
Xaspian

Yeah, my post was responding to Moozy's comment.

I like the sound of creating a full setting. I'll help in the few ways that I can, and at the least, enjoy watching the process.

And yeah, a map would be very nice/good, too.
Exachix

It would be a nice idea, the map. Not essential, but a nice idea.

The full setting being separate is a good idea also =).
Deadly

We would need a name for the setting first, I think. Suggestions? The "best" I can think of would be The World Very Happy
Xaspian

The World sounds good... Although perhaps difference civilisations or cultures would have different IC names for it? I dunno... But I think 'The World', at least for discussion purposes, is great.
Deadly

Hmm... or The Realm(s), to blatantly rip off The Forgotten Realms Smile

And yes, various cultures would call it different things. It don't think there's anyone in Faerun who would say they live in The Forgotten Realms.
Castaras

"The World" sounds good.

Then you can have "The Kingdom", "The City", "The Town", "The Village"...
Xaspian

So that's a no to 'Xasp-land', then? Very Happy

But...what if there's more than one kingdom/city/village!? Then we might actually have to think of a name... Heh.
Wukei

Y'know...the World is what I used for the 20xx freeform...
Deadly

Yeah, it would get a bit small if we only had The Kingdom and such Smile

Also, just noticed that there's already a The World in the Games forum. Not that that necessarily should stop us, but we might want to come up with something original.
Moozy

Xaspian wrote:
we might actually have to think of a name... Heh.

Blasphemy!
Exachix

TCW
the Tanarch Commune World.

No wait.
No we don't.


*points up*

Enupnion.
Wukei

...Perfect!
Deadly

Yes! Enupnion is good!
Moozy

Meh. I like "The World." Though every forest and village doesn't need to be called "The Forest" or "The Village" - but the main one in The World/Enupnion should. Just like The Town is likely the main town.
Vael

*Sigh*

Moozy, I don't think Town is meant to be in this world we're creating.
Moozy

Vael wrote:
*Sigh*

Moozy, I don't think Town is meant to be in this world we're creating.

I don't see any good reasons for it not to be. People would like to make a homebrew world; why not help fix part of the Town's ambiguity in the process?
Vael

Because Town already doesn't fit. It is so diverse that it would affect the entire world, make it weird and screwy, and still not fit in the setting.
Exachix

Town in a setting would create an area of high... disturbance in the Plot-Space Continuity. Inverse to a black hole in the Plot-Space Continuity. It would force out from itself and impose on the world.
As our town changes, as would the town there, as would the world.

We can take aspects from town, places not in town, and put them into this new world/cosmology. But all town would destroy the new setting.
Moozy

I don't see how the fact that the Town is diverse would make the world weird and screwy. All it does is lay a foundation - there's a moderately large Town located somewhere, and it even provides your basic geography, such as that there is a forest, a mountain range, a desert, an ocean, etc.

Edit: Exachix, why is changing the world afterwards a problem?
Xaspian

But Town's so messed up, with conflicting and contradictory characters and concepts, that if it were to be extrapolated to a full world, it would be 'screwy'.

Maybe there can be a 'Town' in 'World', but it wouldn't be the Town...
Exachix

Moozy wrote:
Exachix, why is changing the world afterwards a problem?


It's not the changing. It's the multitude of changes that has to take place.

Town Changes daily. This setting will also have to change daily, and have it's setup changing constantly.

EDIT: Just thought.
Aesa's flaunting around. She is big enough to change the world in one swipe.
That is a disbalance. everything else would have to be balanced to comform to that. Thus: World of super-beings. Thus:Fun = Nill.
Deadly

Well, my initial idea was of a realistic setting that would actually make sense, like any published setting you might find on the shelves out there. The Town is great, but if there's one thing it doesn't, then it's make sense.

I also wanted to keep it seperate from the Town because I was sort of hoping to merge it slightly with my Hamlet idea, to make it a place with a logical and relatively normal/uniform power level, which is very far from what the Town has.
Moozy

So we'll simply ask Vael to not have Aesa walking around changing the major geography of the world. We can set rules for characters, and it doesn't mean it has to impede on the freeform roleplaying style either. Vael could likely come up with a reason for Aesa not to change the geography simply because she wants to.

You're right, the Town changes daily. And new villages and places are added all the time. But local changes won't affect much other than a Town Map, and the bigger changes can often be integrated into a world without much moving everything around. We could simply leave plenty of open, "unexplored" space. Besides, many of these new places that are cropping up all the time aren't even on the Material Plane.

Am I really the only one who thinks it's a great idea to put the Town in this new world?
Vael

Deadly wrote:
I also wanted to keep it seperate from the Town because I was sort of hoping to merge it slightly with my Hamlet idea, to make it a place with a logical and relatively normal/uniform power level, which is very far from what the Town has.

Yeah, because a world with a logical power level makes more sense.

Speaking of which, I found an argument that stated that 1st to 5th level people were the "normal" people- those who aren't heroes and could be found in the real world. Once you get to level 6 and beyond you start touching on the supernatural.

Edit: I think it is a bad idea, Moozy.
Deadly

Vael wrote:
Speaking of which, I found an argument that stated that 1st to 5th level people were the "normal" people- those who aren't heroes and could be found in the real world. Once you get to level 6 and beyond you start touching on the supernatural.


That's how I've always seen it. Someone of 5th level or so would be a highly trained and specialised guard, probably charged with protecting a king or something big. Anything above is approaching legendary.
Moozy

Apparently I haven't convinced anyone, so carry on with ideas for the world I suppose.
Deadly

Sorry Moozy, I just don't think this is something we want to do to Town.

Anyway, did we agree on Enupnion as the name of the world? "The World of Enupnion"
The Herald

Sad And I was hoping that we could work on Tyrath here... Oh, well.
Deadly

So, I'm thinking we need to have some stickied threads for the things that are at least relatively final. But I think we want to keep it as organised as possible, so I propose we elect someone to create and manage those threads. Only that person will post in those threads, and will be responsible for keeping the info there up to date. All discussion will have to stay in other threads so that it's always easy to find the finalised things without having to go through pages of random discussion.

Thoughts?
Vael

Sounds good to me. Who do we want to do that?
Castaras

I nominate the (ir)responsible Vael and Deadly.
Deadly

I can do it if noone else wants. Or we might have more than one organiser, so one doesn't have to manage all of them.

Perhaps we should also try to decide which/how many such treads we need/want, otherwise we could quickly end up with a lot of stickied threads. Might want to limit them a bit.
Castaras

Why not have just one thread, with the first post being a contents page, then each post having a different creation?
Deadly

Hmm, that could work too.
Deadly

So... I'm thinking of two stickies. One for posting the finalised things in, and another for deciding/discussing what is finalised. Along with that second one we need to figure out how to decide whether something is finalised or not. Who should decide on that and how? Suggestions or thoughts?
Vael

Sounds good to me.

We should probably have some kind of vote to determine if something is finalized.
Deadly

Yeah. What about saying that a certain percentage of forum members have to approve of it? Maybe 10%, that'd currently make it 6 people who have to approve. We could add to that and say that atleast a certain number of those people (2, maybe) must be on the counsil or something to that effect.

This is everyone's world, so we should all have a say in it, I think.
Vael

Well.... I don't think everyone in the forum is actually interested.
What we should do is make a list of people who are involved, and get a percentage of them.
Deadly

Hmm... Atleast make the list open, so that anyone can sign up and have a say if they feel interrested enough to do so. I don't think something resembling an Enupnion Counsil would be good, then it'd just be the same people who decide every time.
Vael

Right right. That is what I was thinking.
Deadly

Ok. How many should we say is needed from that list to finalize something? I'm thinking 60%, rounded up. In other words:

2 or 3 people on list: 2 must agree
4 or 5 people on list: 3 must agree
6 people on list: 4 must agree
7 or 8 people on list: 5 must agree
9 or 10 people on list: 6 must agree
11 people on list: 7 must agree
12 people on list: 8 must agree

And so on. We might want to put a max on the number of people needed to approve of something, so it doesn't take too long to get something finalised, but other than that I think it's ok.
Deadly

Ok, so unless there are some final objections, I'll go ahead and create the two sticky threads.
Vael

Well uh, I think you and are the only people doing things, so...
>>
<<
Deadly

But... There's been some interrest before Shocked
Castaras

I'm still hovering...

And am (slowly) getting to grips with Cartographer, and creating a map for us...
Deadly

*Feels less lonely now* Smile

Sounds good. Can't way to see some maps. I love maps.
Vael

*twiddles thumbs and waits for a fourth person to express any interest at all*
Moozy

I'm still lurking here, adding my (worthless) two cents occasionally. Razz
Deadly

So, that makes four interrested people... provided both Castaras and Moozy wish to be on the list of approvers?
Baeleck

A third lurker here... I'm not so good at coming up with ideas, but I know good ideas when I see them.
Moozy

Yes, I wish to be added to the list.
Artemis

I've been lurking, and will throw in an idea here or there.
helgraf

So, how does one officially "become involved" with this project?
Deadly

By voicing your interrest and participating. That's it Smile

I've added you to the list.
Xaspian

Sign me up. I can comment, And sometimes it can be constructive.
Geomancer

I'm interested! OH SO INTERESTED IS I.
Rebonack

Just to throw in my thoughts on the concept as a whole...

I've always seen the Town as the center of a multi-planer Nexus. It isn't on one world. It's on an infinite number of vastly different worlds each of which operates under its own cosmology and history. Things that happen within the Nexus don't necessarily effect the world outside it.

To do that you would actually have to get out of the Nexus and into an actual world.

That said, I don't see it as being possible to say anything about what world the Town is on or specifics about the geography around it. Or the kingdoms around it. Or the villages around it.

It would certainly be possible to describe one of the worlds that the Nexus touches, though nothing more than that.
Vael

Okay, so I'm seeing two current contrasting beliefs about our world.

1) The world is mostly like our world, but with magic. There may be mythical creatures, but they are long forgotten, outcast to the edges, and only legends and whispers...
Mutants and humans rule, while other dangerous beasts (mutated animals, crazed mutated humans, other evil plotty people, yada yada) lurk in the ruins of the civilization.

2) The world is a fantasy world with fewer mythical creatures, but there are common magical creatures (IE dragons) and other mythical threats/sentient races.


I personally have been crafting and viewing this world as the first option. It just feels better to me, what with the darkness, the gritty realism, and dark age feel I've been seeing and envisioning. Mythical creatures, in my opinion, should be rare and something to fear.
Having a race of sentient, mini-dragons flying around mischievously just throws that entire edge off for me.
Deadly

You know, when you put it like that it does actually sound better your way. I'm just a little concerned that having only humans, even with mutations, could get boring in the long run.

That, and I really like my dragons. But you're right, they wouldn't fit in the first view *sigh*
Geomancer

I think both options have mutated humans right? Also do we have to call them mutants? That reminds me too strongly of sci fi.

I agree with Vael that our world should be dark and gritty, but having the Mist Dragons doesn't completely ruin that for me. Maybe if the MDs are feared and hated to begin with? What if the moonshards mess with their minds and make them go crazy, and thus they are seen as evil by the people who hold the shards holy?
Vael

The 'being small' thing kinda really throws that off.
If we had the normal, massive, reclusive and rare dragons (maybe even shadow dragons, so they'd fit in the potential dream realm theme we have in the other plane?) that could bite you in half, that would work.


I call them mutants because that is what they really are. I don't think they'll be called that in the campaign...
We could say that the use of the word heretic changed from "those who stole the moon shards" to "those who use moon shards" to "those who have been affected by moon shards."
It would be a sort of flowing and still derogatory term... but it would mostly refer to those changed by moon shards.
Geomancer

Okay, as long as we don't call them mutants in the campaign I'm good.
Deadly

Or even stricter, "those who have been in contact with moon shards (without proper rituals of cleansing and protection or whatever)". Those really fanatic priests would probably see it like that. If you've touched a moon shard, you've been affected and that makes you one of the heretics.

I also dislike the word "mutation". We could call them Alteration Points or Transmutation Points or something like that.
Vael

I personally like Freak Points, but that is just me. Very Happy
Deadly

Yeah, 'freak' is just such a freakily nice word Very Happy

Ok, so no small, mischievous dragons everywhere. Maybe we could have myths about small, dark and sinister dragons, along with the big ones. I just think small dragons are way cooler than the big and clumsy ones. The small ones could be the stuff of nightmares, small assassins in the dark. They may not exist, but the tales do.
Geomancer

*Sigh* I liked the dragonlings.
Vael

If you want less clumsy, we could make them less dragons and more serpents. Like chinese dragons that are long and slender.
Geomancer

Thats what I thought they where already. Long, winged, moderately sized forearms and back legs. Slender.
Deadly

Just had an idea. What if we go with the shadowdragon idea, and say that because they are shadows they can change size as they like. So if they need to sneak around they'll turn small, and if they need to be really big and intimidating they'll do that? That'd be a whole lot scarier, because you'd never know where to expect them.

And I like the serpent idea, too. We could merge the ideas into shadow serpents
Geomancer

I don't like them being big.
Vael

Ah, well, with Deadly's version they probably won't be big until they need to fight. Being 'normal' or 'small' sized makes it so they will have ease getting around which they won't have while being massive.

I like the shadow size changing serpents.
Geomancer

How big are we talking when we say big?
Artemis

I kinda like the sound of these Shadow Serpents, but how similar will they be to the Mist Dragons? Hanestly, I liked the concept, and they'd probably fit just fine if we came up with more strange creatures.
Deadly

I like both the mist dragon and the shadow serpent, but after this discussion I think the mist dragon should be made non-intelligent. Really just an animal, then we could also give it that poison bite it's been screaming for without caring about LA.

As for the size of the shadow serpent, imagine fighting something small, in the same category as the mist dragons perhaps, and suddenly it just expands in front of you to a huge, towering shadowy mass of claws and red eyes. I think that'd be so awe inspiring and scary, totally beating any normal tales of dragons.
Vael

But is the "lots of mythical and weird creatures roaming around" the feel we want? Scary transformed creatures maybe... but with them you have no idea what to expect. They could be like ghosts and mist through you, or be zombies in the night. It could be anything, and fear is largely based on lack of knowledge, or something that you know being changed. It makes it scary, especially when both of those aspects are there.

We need to decide what kind of world we're going to make. I LIKE the dragons, I just don't fit with my view of the world.
Geomancer

So we have a PC race that can turn into giant monsters? I'd rather have the shadow serpents stay rather small and give it the power to cast shadowy illusions.
Deadly

No, not a PC race. Only humans would be a PC race.
Vael

Well, there IS a pc race that could turn into a giant monster. Or a normal monster. You'd be able to make lycanthropes with our system.
Geomancer

OH.... I get it, ok nevermind then. I think our system allows any type of were creature as well. Neat.
Deadly

Vael wrote:
But is the "lots of mythical and weird creatures roaming around" the feel we want? Scary transformed creatures maybe... but with them you have no idea what to expect. They could be like ghosts and mist through you, or be zombies in the night. It could be anything, and fear is largely based on lack of knowledge, or something that you know being changed. It makes it scary, especially when both of those aspects are there.

We need to decide what kind of world we're going to make. I LIKE the dragons, I just don't fit with my view of the world.


The way I see it we have a world where mythical creatures like this shadow serpent don't roam around everywhere. In fact noone really knows if they exist, or atleast only a rare few would know. But just because the creatures of myth don't roam around doesn't mean there are no myths at all. I think there should be plenty of myths about such creatures, but they remain myths to most.
Vael

Right. That is what I think.
I think if we're going that direction, we need to cut out dragons as a PC race.

If we go in a less mythical direction, I think they'd fit in fine.
Which way do people want to go?
Geomancer

So what time of encounter does one wandering in the wilderness of Enupnion meet? Transformed bears? Crazed mutants that aren't human anymore?
Deadly

I think we should have only humans as a PC race. Which really means that we cut out the race system entirely and just replace it with mutations.

And as for the type of encounter, yes, animals, humans and a million different mutations of the two is what you'll find. If you go really far out you might just meet some mythical creature, or think you do... it could of course just be a mutated thing.

And I think if we go this way, we need a regular creature compendium, for the humans, animals and mutations. And then a mythical creature compendium, which doesn't give any stats but just describes how the creature is seen in various tales and myths. It may be true, it may be completely wrong, noone knows for sure.
Vael

Normal bears. Crazed bears. Maybe some funky mutants, but I think there would be a great chance of environmental hazards.
Geomancer

Don't forget mutated and crazy plants. Especially trees, evil trees are awesome. I want to get some of this stuff finalized so we can start playing here.
Deadly

I think what we need to finalise first is the basics of the world. What we've just discussed, minus all the stuff about various dragons. We need to know exactly what kind of world we have to work with. Then we can decide on the race/mutation system, and then we can work our way from there.

So we need to decide on the kind of world.
Geomancer

You mean which world map to use? Or like, shape?
Deadly

No, whether or not we want it to be a highly mythical place, with lots of mythical creatures, or a place with less of that, or even a place with nothing like that.

Whether we want more than just humans as PC races.

Whether or not we want a lot of technology everywhere, or little or none at all.

Whether we want a high magic setting, or a low magic setting.

Stuff like that. The really basic concepts of the world. We need to be absolutely clear on those things, and agree that that's what we're working with

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