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Deadly

Race discussions (Enupnion Setting)

Here there be monsters... and not quite monsters.

We should try to nail down some races. Except that we might drop the whole race thing slightly, and just have variations and mutations of humans. Atleast that's been suggested

We already have Vael's Moon Vamps. I don't think he'll give up on those Very Happy

I really want werewolves. But I've always wanted to change them. I'm considering getting rid of the hybrid form. Just human or animal form, but maybe some faint hints on the human form that suggests lycanthropy. I also dislike the idea of simple damage reduction. I think it would be nice if they can't be killed at all without silver. You can hurt them, you can cut them down to -10 hp, but eventually they'll heal and get back up unless you shoot a silver bullet through their heart or something. Also considering lightening this up a bit, and saying that they must be in moonlight or close to a moon fragment to heal, so if you burried their corpse they wouldn't rise again... or something.

Drow... If we're going by the "only human variations" idea, then Drow would really just be dark skinned humans living underground. They wouldn't deal much with the moons in the sky, obviously, but might be masters of moon fragments.

Any other thoughts?
Castaras

The werewolf idea sounds good to me.

And if we include drow...instead of being with spiders, maybe they could be worshippers of the fallen moon or something...And have their main tunnel to the upper world being near the main target of the moon crash...

Edit: Oh, and I have an idea for a race that could have been created with the moonpocalypse.

Basically, a human city near the site of the moon crash gets blasted with high amounts of magic. This changes their skin and shape, and helps them survive the aftermath of the crash. When the other humans come to find them, finding only these strange creatures, they try and eradicate them, being the stupid xenophobic humans they are. These creatures escape to the north, into the ice and snow. The other humans, giving up, leaving them to their fate. These creatures stay up in the cold cold snow, creating a new life for themselves up there, slowly adapting to survive.

So...yeah. I'm imagining them as water mages and necromancers, but that's just me...<.<
Timberwolf

What I'd ideally like is maybe, possibly, if people don't get the burning torches and pitchforks ready for me at the first mention of this, a couple of human subtypes that resulted from the technology as well.
The Herald

"We are Borg. You will be ass-laminated." (Don't ask.)
Timberwolf

No please, tell me...

Anyway, I've had an idea for people who really, really want to use higher tech things in the form of I have absolutely no idea what the hell it is, but it makes modifications to a basic characters race, brings some very hefty benefits and also some very hefty drawbacks, particularly with the tech / magic fear / superstition thing. Shall I but my thoughts down and then someone who knows what the hell they're doing give it a once over and decree whether it's usuable or not ?
Deadly

Can't hurt to hear your idea Smile
Timberwolf

Ok, here it is. Showing my Battletech fanboyness, I gave it the working title “Techwarrior” Yeah, I suck. It’s also my 1st go at this so I thought I’d just put down the bare bones and not assign any values to anything because I will screw up.

Basically, what I envisaged was that the really advanced tech, the stuff that say has been mouldering in a cache for years, requires a lot of alteration to use, physical and mental (so not everyone’s able to use it) this alteration could be in the form of an injection of nanites / whatever that sends your bone, nerves, muscle etc synthetic and provides a neural hookup etc etc insert sci fi here.

What this would mean for a character is instant boost of Str, Dex, Con to 18, instant gaining of construct like spell resistance with limitations (see below), gaining of damage resistance against slashing, piercing + bludgeoning, ability to use high level tech, construct like immunities (again with limitations), a modifiable end result (again, see below).

Other advantages include not aging, except in the parts that are still human, having a synthetic heart so no more heart attacks, not really having to sleep any more and food is another negiotiable matter.

Construct like immunities, well, I’m not entirely sure what they all are, but resistance to poison, str, dex + con drain should, I feel, all come in.

All of this is great, but, what are the drawbacks ?

Simple, in an age when everyone’s afraid of tech, having a set of metal contacts under your hair can be a bit incriminating. Also, having to explain why your not aging can be a bitch. Also, no being able to have children. Additionally, you’d need to find someone with the know how, equipment and supply of serum / whatever. Which would be no small task in itself bearing in mind how lost everything is. That does it for RP drawbacks. Now, class drawbacks

You can’t magically enhance any stats that have been upgraded with this. Armour that’s been created to be used by this type of person, yes, use as normal, but that suit of lesser Golem armour with its +5 magical Strength ? forget it. Sure you can still use it and enjoy any other benefits it brings, but that strength mod ? No. Bearing in mind that armour of the kind suitable for this type of person will be extremely rare…

Next, magic. I see no reason why your spells can’t work as normal. Other peoples, well, I’ll leave it to anyone who might find this workable to work out a suitable response with resistances and all that, but, I will say, mind affecting spells, I feel should work as normal, so does anything that affects the internal organs, because they will still be living tissue. Also, any instadeath spell, as per normal, so basically, it’s just evocation spells that get hit by the construct spell resistance so spellcasting enemies will not be nerfed by this irredeemably.


Now for one of the drawbacks that I really like.

There’s an excellent chance that this may kill you.

What I envisaged was that in the wars as mentioned in the timeline, both sides were using this type of person freely and both sides decided to weaken the other by adulterating their supply of serum. When this is being administered, roll 1d20, 1-3 = bad batch of serum and painful death.

Also. This is an invasive procedure, if you survive the first roll, there’s another one to make against a bad reaction. Roll 1 d20, if you get a 1, you’re dead, as before. If your unmodified con is under 14, +1 to the death roll for every point you’re under. Also, if you decide to modify the end result, ie you always wanted claws like Wolverine or wings, or whatever, add another 1 to the roll, +2 if you want something made with materials that are rare..

Anyway, it’s probably massively unbalanced but I did my best with my limited knowledge, to balance the undoubted benefits with a few massive disadvantages (especially for wizards whose con scores will hopefully make this a very risky luxury to consider while giving the poor old fighty types a boost). Basically, what I think I’ve come up with is this worlds answer to the Lich, although not as bad ass, as difficult to kill or as guaranteed to be evil.
Deadly

Sounds like an interresting concept, though perhaps more like a (prestige) class than a race? I don't know. At the least I think it'll be easier to balance if it's a class, because you can spread out the powers/advantages over many levels. Maybe it takes time and many experiments and alterations to reach the stage you describe.
Timberwolf

That's why I've put it here. I was walking back from the pub and I had the idea but I don't know enough to really make it work.

One thing that I did forget to add was that I thought there should be a recovery time, where the character is essentially helpless.
Vael

Okay. So we have...

Humans.
Techwarriorpeoplerobotthingiemagummies.
Moon Vampires (no I will NOT let them go! Wink)
Some kind of lycanthropes...

Any other ideas?
Moozy

Let's have one short race. D&D has 3, we can't have at least just one?

Please? Wink
Timberwolf

Hah, the ultimate human technological achievement...

*drumroll*

the Gnome Cannon. Even more devastating than the 6 barrelled Trout Cannon patented by the Banzai Institute, the Gnome Cannon launches small, angry, devastating creatures at ranges of up to 1 mile.

Yes, lets have gnomes.
Castaras

NOoooooo!

No gnomes! Please no gnomes!

I'm begging you! Noooo!

Use halflings instead! The gnomes burn us! BURN US!

...

I've got an idea for a great drow empire that relied on the moon that fell. When it fell, their empire collapsed, and they were reduced to being feral and primitive hunters in the underdark.

And I've got an idea for "Shardlings" that were created when the moon collapsed - small creatures that live in the cold ice of the north.
Vael

Hm. I've got a better idea.
If you want a short person, pay a midget.
*hates all the short races*

We're playing all human based races... if you're short, it better have something to do with magic or tech. =P
Timberwolf

Oh, what I was thinking of with my idea was that it would be insanely rare, difficult to obtain and stupidly dangerous, even if you did manage to get everything for it.

And why not Gnomes ? A 1 mile stand off range is nothing to sneeze at you know ....
Castaras

Vael wrote:
Hm. I've got a better idea.
If you want a short person, pay a midget.
*hates all the short races*

We're playing all human based races... if you're short, it better have something to do with magic or tech. =P


Aha!

Dark grey skinned humans created through biological experiments before the moonpocalypse! That = Drow, no?

Shardlings, I was thinking that they could have been humans that lived a little way north of the moon crash, and the intense magic fused them with ice or something or other.

And why not gnomes? Because they're annoying. And remind me of those stone creatures.

I'm all in favour of them being cannon fodder, or creatures used in the yearly gnome punting olympics...
Moozy

That's it, though, Vael. They could have mutated from the moon's powers like all the other variations.

Ah well. It was worth a try, at least. Razz
Deadly

I also dislike gnomes. They are just too silly, no matter how serious you make them. They are only really good for making fun at.

Dwarves are ok, except that I don't think they fit in here, in this particular world.

Halflings... I don't like them too much, and they also don't seem to fit too well. I'd like to replace them with the dragons. The dragons, as I see them and discussed somewhere else, would work really well as replacements for halflings. They would serve the role of rogues, and they would fit in much better.
Deadly

And here's my first attempt at some stats for the tiny rogue dragons.

* +2 dex, +2 int, -4 str

* Tiny dragon

* +1 natural armor

* +2 to saves against poisons

* Darkvision out to 30 feet and low-light vision.

* Immunity to magic sleep effects

* +4 to Hide and Move Silently checks

* +2 to Climb and Swim checks

* Breath of Mist: Like the spell Obscuring Mist, once per day

* Poisonous Bite: Injury, Fortitude DC 14, initial damage sleep for 1 minute, secondary damage sleep for 1d3 hours.

* LA: 0

* Favored Class: Rogue


I am trying to decide if they should be able to fly, though perhaps not that well. I think it's a pretty serious boon, but maybe with an additional -2 to Con or something?
Vael

Ooo... they might be a bit heavy ended already, really.
Castaras

Looking at the first set of adjustment scores, IIRC, in the DMG it says something about bonuses in one skill equals a minus in something else...

Str = Dex/Con/Int+Wis/Int+Cha/Wis+Cha
Dex = Str/Con/Int+Wis/Int+Cha/Wis+Cha
Con = Str/Dex/Int/Wis/Cha
Int = Wis/Cha
Wis = Int/Cha
Cha = Int/Wis

Don't quote me on that though...*Goes to find DMG*

What I'm basically saying is that they have more ability bonuses than the equivalent of ability minuses.

*Rereads* Or that I'm just an tired idiot who can't read...>.<
Moozy

-2 to Charisma, perhaps? And when you say Tiny, do you mean small for a dragon (so size Medium or Small, or something like that), or do you mean size Tiny? It's going to be pretty weird if a PC race is size Tiny, but meh...
Vael

I think he literally means Tiny.

I'd personally drop the immunity to sleep and the poison, then call it good.
Also, what is their base land speed?
Moozy

I'd give them some kind of resistance to poison, though, even if not full immunity. Kind of sucks if you accidentally bite and poison yourself. Razz
Deadly

Yup, the size Tiny and type Dragon

I don't mind removing the poison, really, I guess sleep can go too. And I suppose their speed would be as halflings, 20 feet, right?

And it does get +2 against poison Wink
Vael

Sounds right.

You know, probably the good way to do it would be to give them a base move speed of like... say... 10ft, then have a fly speed of 20/30ft with a low maneuverability. That'd probably work with a +0 LA, really.
Moozy

Give them a fly speed of 30 ft with average maneuverability, but change their type from Dragon to Magical Beast. Since there are no variations in dragons now, and they're just a simple Tiny creature, I don't think there's any reason to have Dragons as its own type.
Deadly

That sounds good to me. They wouldn't move that fast on land, really. So here's the new stats

* +2 dex, +2 int, -4 str
* Tiny dragon
* Base land speed: 10ft, fly 30 (low maneuverability)
* +1 natural armor
* +2 to saves against poisons
* Darkvision out to 30 feet and low-light vision.
* +4 to Hide and Move Silently checks
* +2 to Climb and Swim checks
* Breath of Mist: Like the spell Obscuring Mist, once per day
* LA: 0
* Favored Class: Rogue

And actually, I think it would be nice to have several variations of dragons, except most would not be intelligent.
Vael

The movement ratings are Perfect, Good, Average, Poor, and Clumsy.
I'd say Average or Poor, most likely Poor.
Deadly

I'd say poor as well. Seems most fitting.

Any other things about it that could be improved?

We also might want to create some stickied threads for the things that are final. This one needs a nice description and some more detailed text in general, though.
NecroPaladin

I'd like to see two things.

An undead race, and

An abberant/varied race.

Discuss.
Vael

Well, the moon vampires semi kind fit both.
They are technically abberations, however.
NecroPaladin

I was thinking more a race that has freak mutations from one to the other, things that might give +8 to one stat and -4 to two (A bit more for the mental scores since they're not quite as useful). One member would be freakishly muscular, another tiny with a huge brain. A third would be the epitome of attractiveness and incredibly magnetic as a personality, but snap like a twig under the slightest blow.
Lykan

I know this just adds to the ebberon-iness of this setting, but I think Shifters should be included, simply because of the amount of were-creatures.

For those who don't know who they are, tehy're basically people with lycanthrope ancestors who have the ability to change into animalistic beings.

If vampires are more "alive" in this, it'd be cool if they had something liek this too... >.>
Geomancer

I'd like to see a race of humans somehow binded with one of the elements, via some sort of magical disaster. It'd vary from person to person, but imagine like stone hands or legs that can turn to water.

Preferred class would be Sorcerer I think, do to the magical accident aspect. Any thoughts?
Vael

It makes sense to me. If we have the fallen moon be the transmutation moon, then perhaps someone could have found areas that had been imbued with its power and gotten changed by the area AND the shards.
I think this would make Earth/Water folk most common.
Geomancer

Definitely. Fire and a few other elements could make cameo appearances but I think Earth/Water would be the most common.
Deadly

Hmm... just had this crazy idea. Maybe if we get rid of all the "altered human" races, and just have pure human, then we could make a "Freak Point System" Very Happy Tie it to class, perhaps. Sorcerers would get a whole lot of Freak Points distributed between levels. Other classes would get some too, but not as many. Then our freaky sorcerer could go out and use her Freak Points to buy herself some freaky traits, like stone arms or a third eye. Each trait would give some bonus and some penalty. In other words a "Design your own freak" system
Geomancer

Deadly, that is an incredibly excellent idea. Works perfectly with mine.
Moozy

It's a good concept, but I think there needs to be different races as well. Something like a dragon wouldn't be a human with freak points, it'd be... a dragon.
Deadly

Yes, I was just thinking of getting rid of the human variations. Dragons and other non-humans could use freak points too.
Geomancer

Instead of having half-dragons they could just be dragons with freak points. That'd explain the spider legs and the wagging doggy tail perfectly.
Deadly

Heh, we've created a freak world Very Happy

Seriously, this is going to be one crazy place
Geomancer

And you expected something else? We made the town what it is after all.
Vael

I like that idea. It is a whole lot cooler than creating tons of races.

Anyone ever seen the D20 Future mutations? We could create a system like that.

We could have maybe a few base races, like humans, dragons, and maybe 1-2 more?
Deadly

Just looked over the D20 Future mutations, and it looks good. I say we use that system, but with our own mutations and drawbacks, of course.

Both lycanthropes and moon vampires would then be mutations and not races.
Vael

For anyone who doesn't know about mutations:
Mutation system.

We could also develop a system to determine LA if you don't balance out your character's "freak" stuff.
Deadly

Also, some classes, particularly sorcerers, would get a number of free Points as part of the class.

Also, we may need to do some kind of restriction on selection of drawbacks, so that if you select vampirism as a mutation you have to select specific drawbacks and not just any drawbacks that give enough points.
Vael

Right, of course. Makes sense to me.
Deadly

Hmm, so what other races should we have? We have humans and dragons, what else is there that we could add that would not be mutations?
Moozy

What about Formlings? Will they be considered mutations from humans?
Deadly

NecroPaladin wrote:
FORMLINGS IN ENUPNION

((This done after a little chit-chat with Vael over fitting them in))

In Enupnion, formlings are not borne of The Creator, but rather, they are humans born under a full moon. The moon they are born under derives what color they initially are, as well as where their ability focus lies. Formlings are not outcasts, but rather hold high positions in society, be it a charismatic formling serving as a diplomat, a tough (CON) formling serving as captain of the guard, or a dextrous formling crimelord. Depending on the moon, certain superstitions, fears, or legends may sprout up about a particular type of formling.


Based on that I would say they are definately mutations.
Castaras

[chant]Drow! Drow! Drow![/chant]

<.<

Although in seriousness, a race of beings that are resistant to magic, and maybe do not use magic from the moons could work...A warrior race of the underground, that maybe use a weak magic that is derived from a small fragment of the moonpocalypse?
Vael

Yeah... they would probably fall under human mutations.
Geomancer

Maybe a race of hyper intelligent bears? Just kidding, sorta. I think bears are neat.
Destro Yersul

Do we really need anything else? "Human mutation" covers such a broad spectrum, really. Practically every humanoid creature in the MM could be explained as a human mutation. Look at Shadowrun: Trolls are human mutations.

That said, I like Thri-Keen. Except without psionics.
Vael

I had a brilliant (to me) idea!

Has anyone checked out the savage progression thing that WotC made?

I think this would be a really great idea for us, except the way we could do it is make "freak progressions" which you could take levels of to gain freak points, or maybe we could even make specific freak classes (like lycanthropes, formlings, and moon vampires).
Deadly

You mean, basically a predefined set of mutations that you can take like a class?
Timberwolf

That's basically what I had in mind for my contribution only you'd need to find the stuff for it too.
Vael

There are plenty of ways you could do it, but these were the ways I was thinking:
1) Spend levels to gain more Freak Points.
2) Spend levels to get specific, set mutations so that you'll change into the other races (but you don't have to go all the way through, so we could have partial werewolves, or vampires, or formlings, etc)

Neither of those would negate the original system, or even each other.
The way I've thought about it is that freak points won't be able to manage extreme changes, just smaller ones.
The first way could allow you to gain a lot of different small mutations, while the second one could make you an entirely different race.
Geomancer

But what if you have a sorcerer that is born with whatever deformity he has (stone legs perhaps?) I think it would be better to have freak points get dealt out at the very beginning based on character class and have them be relatively unchangeable afterwards.
Vael

Well that's the thing, you start with some points to show who you are, some character classes will change you (like sorcerers...)

But what happens if you happen across more moon shards? Or happen to have a certain theme that would feed its own progression? That's what the class idea is for.
This doesn't replace the other systems, it adds to it.
Deadly

I had originally thought that if you wanted more freak points than you got normally, you'd take a feat to get them or something. Some powerful spells could change you as well, just like Wish can give you permanent ability increses.

I'm not sure, but it seems a bit counter productive to getting rid of all those many races, which I think was the original idea. With this idea we just replace the many races with many "classes", it seems.
Vael

Hmmm... well, think of it like this (just using the extra freak point thing)

If we do freak points, we'll need to balance out the races and give detrimental abilities. Classes will be more like giving you straight out LA (which could be taken later and at different levels, without the detriments unless you want extra)

Plus, this would be able to offer tons more mutation points than a feat would. Think of this as the difference between someone playing an Eberron Shifter-esque mutant, and someone like the Hulk.
Deadly

Ok... so we have humans as the only race (forgetting dragons for a moment), and then we have a bunch of classes. Some classes give freak points, some don't. Some feats also give freak points, as does some spells.

You can then use all your freak points to gain mutations. Each mutation has an attached drawback. Like, if you have stone arms you may cause more damage with each hit, but you get a penalty to attack because you're slower. Or something like that.

But, unless you're a sorcerer, your freak points are likely to be really limited. So, when you level up, instead of taking a level in whatever class you like, you get a number of freak points instead and a LA +1. Or the same as gaining a level, but getting no attack bonus, added HP or anything, just freak points.

That's the summary of how I see it currently. Is that ok with everyone?
Vael

I think we may want to rework the drawback system, but otherwise yes.

What we could do is have a number of different drawbacks for people to take for each mutation.
Deadly

Yea, some mutations might have a number of drawbacks to chose from, others might just have one. That could give it some more flexibility.
Geomancer

Yeah what you said works for me Deadly. Just to be clear we are going to be using this campaign world in a freeform setting on the boards when we clear up a lot of the ambiguity? Because if not, I'm suggesting ideas to a system I'll never be able to use. (D&D idiot as I am).
Deadly

I certainly imagined it would be freeform too, but people could use the rules if they wanted. Just like Town.
Geomancer

Yay. As for freak points, how are we limiting what you can do with them? How are we deciding on the drawbacks?
helgraf

Could use the Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana to determine accumulation of Freak Points from tainted (e.g. moon radiationed) environments and items...
Vael

Could work, yes. Might want to vary them though.
Castaras

helgraf wrote:
Could use the Taint rules from Unearthed Arcana to determine accumulation of Freak Points from tainted (e.g. moon radiationed) environments and items...

So...is this taint rule much like the shadow taint in Oriental Adventure's Rokugan setting?
Vael

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm

Taint.
Deadly

I imagine we're just talking about the accumulation of Freak Points and not the system of Taint itself (with the whole idea of evil and the actual effects of Taint, which doesn't fit with Enupnion at all).

I'm not sure it'd work well for our purpose. I think we'd run into the problem that sorcerers would have absolutely insane amounts of Taint. They'd be huge blobs of living Taint, and if we keep the idea that you can die from being tainted, sorcerers would either have died many generations before they were born... or noone would be able to accumulate enough taint to die, rendering the rule pointless.

I can't see how we'd easily balance this out while still having sorcerers make sense. I honestly think we may need another system.
helgraf

Deadly wrote:
I imagine we're just talking about the accumulation of Freak Points and not the system of Taint itself (with the whole idea of evil and the actual effects of Taint, which doesn't fit with Enupnion at all).

I'm not sure it'd work well for our purpose. I think we'd run into the problem that sorcerers would have absolutely insane amounts of Taint. They'd be huge blobs of living Taint, and if we keep the idea that you can die from being tainted, sorcerers would either have died many generations before they were born... or noone would be able to accumulate enough taint to die, rendering the rule pointless.

I can't see how we'd easily balance this out while still having sorcerers make sense. I honestly think we may need another system.


Well the Taint system there could just be used to determine when Freak Points are gained (or some modification whereby every X Taint becomes Y Freak). Alternately, Sorcerers may have a different progression because of their nature.
Destro Yersul

I've always liked the way the Taint system works. If we rip out all the fluff and stick our own in there instead, it should work. Maybe make a few minor adjustments to how many points are gained for various things.
helgraf

Destro Yersul wrote:
I've always liked the way the Taint system works. If we rip out all the fluff and stick our own in there instead, it should work. Maybe make a few minor adjustments to how many points are gained for various things.


Warhammer actually has a couple of interesting widgets that could be adapted, replacing Chaos/Mutation with Moonrock/Freak/Mutation

Inured to Lunar Matter
Prerequisite: At least one mutation brought on by exposure to moonsubstance. Sorcerers gain this feat free at Class Level 3.
Benefit: Your nature has partially adapted to the radiation given off by the broken moon; you gain a bonus to saves to resist further mutations equal to 3 plus the number of mutations you already possess.

Superior Adaption
Prerequisite: At least two moonsubstance mutations.
Benefit: When you gain a mutation, generate two mutations and choose the more beneficial one. However, you suffer a -2 penalty to future saves to resist mutation.
Special: Sorcerers gain this feat free at Level 7; at level 13 they no longer suffer the -2 penalty; their bodies have adapted to the unusual lunar energies sufficently to no longer be as vulnerable to future change.
Deadly

Hmm, that gave me an idea. Not sure if this should go in the rules thread, but anyway.... maybe normal people have a natural resistance to being Freaked by the moon shards. It makes enough sense that the immune system would try to combat the Freaking.

However, with enough exposure this resistance might be worn down, basically the opposite of what you posted, Helgraf. This also makes sense, sickness can often weaken your immune system greatly. So, sorcerers who are born Freaky would have very low resistance and thus be able to gain Freak Points more easily, while some sheltered priest might have great resistance and have almost no chance of gaining FP.

That could even help explain some history: If the priests see the Freaking as divine punishment, they might use this as proof. Because if they aren't affected then it must be a sign that they are doing right and the sorcerers, who are so easily affected, are doing a great wrong.

We could then have a skill that affects how much control you have over your Freaking. Low skill means that you can't control what effects it'll have on you, while great skill would mean that you can control it greatly. Sorcerers would gain some bonus on this skill, because controlling their Freakings would be vital because of how easily affected they are. This could also be used to avoid death from Freaking. While a normal person with the amount of FP as sorcerer has would die, a sorcerer has so great control that they can avoid it. Sorcerers aren't immune to death from Freaking, but they can resist it much better than most others.

Oh, and yes, I love the word Freak Very Happy
Renrik

race? goblins, of course. goblins are the key.

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