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Moxie

Playing for fun, yours and mine.

A lot of people seem to have lost this concept, this purpose, that the Town isn't a small MMORPG, the Town isn't a game. No, it's a collective or stories about people who live in that community. Games you play to win, in town, there is no win. You see, it's all the griping about this and that that has me down, about Ubers messing up the Town, when, you know, Draken has pretty much his whole character list set up with Ubers, he manages not to get in the way, complaints about this unrealistic aspect of a character or that unrealistic aspect of a character, not thinking for once that the Town isn't on earth. Lose your disillusionment, and then start playing.

Or people that strictly play and work at bringing other players down, hunting their characters to the ends of the earth for, what IC would be only explainable as stepping on someone's toes in a crowded subway. Nor should you ever try to kill a character using every means necessary when your character shrugs off everything they use to defend themselves, at some point the person playing fairly will lose their character, or have to start playing unfairly due despite their best efforts to. Yeah, I know letting a person get away with their injustices is like a kick is the balls for you, but you know what, not everything can be solved with fire and sword, and in those times, you're more likely to impale yourself in the head with the sword and do the whole world a favor and prove Darwin right.

You see, every so often there's a wall that you have to get past, and may people seem to opt for the Kool-aid man approach and bust through the way screaming "Oh Yeah!" Without realization that you're a big, glass picture, and you've just shattered yourselves. What you need are ways around the wall. Like the door right over there. Knock knock. "Hello sir, could we talk about this?" It's called diplomacy, and it's about treating people with respect, and not threatening all suspects. Or there's climbing the wall, which takes a bit more time, but you ninja your way behind it, and set up traps for the person, or, hell, even the craft use of magic would help.

But hey, so, so many people have tried against me before just doing the Kool-Aid man approach, the barbarian kick in the door, and so I slap them across the face and say try again. I'm not even talking about one event here, so don't think I'm just specifically pointing at a few people. I'm smart enough to bar against the most common choice, but I'm generous enough to point out to you with neon signs how to solve the situations.

Like, here's something: Sanctuary. Sanctuary is a spell that prevents people from attacking characters as long as those characters don't attack anyone else. You know what that means? It really means I don't want to ****in' fight so get the **** away from my face. It is not an invitation to go "Will save" and stab my characters in the back. I'm sure anyone else who's used the spell would agree with me, that the spell should prevent people from using the Kool-Aid man approach at solving their problems with the characters, and start thinking is strategy or diplomacy. You still get the same XP for getting past the wall, but you don't leave you and everyone else in that anger of just repeatedly bashing your head against the wall until you or it cracks. And, personally, if that's your choice, most often your skull is thicker and denser than the wall, so the wall finally gives in and says, "You win." Don't take that as a victory.

I guess what I'm saying is, "If at first you don't succeed, try again in a different way."

Okay, second problem, and this comes up a lot, fluctuating character levels. Comes back to the wall thing again. People see a barrier, and just assume they have to bust it down. An Uber gets involved in something, or you get involved with an Uber, or something to that effect. Let them have a victory, or outsmart them, cause there's more to conflict than who can kick who's ass. Now, I've claimed a few of my characters to be Ubers before, and they didn't go around kicking sand in puny character's faces, or laughing off every hit you give to them. Hell, my Ubers were very weak compared to most Ubers, but they most often tried to use option B. and option C. which had most people go, "Wow, they're really powerful." Not really, they can actually plan for later in the fight. And even then, I give you tons of hints about what I'm going to do, so it's not something out of the blue, and if you go, what the hell, you shouldn't be able to do that! And I'll go through the fight with you and point out what you could've done to prevent that outcome from happening.

But, yeah, what pisses me off the most is people suddenly gaining a strange power that wasn't there before just to beat my character. I really mean it, I've seen people who go from "Oh, my, I'm just a necromancer who really only studied the dead" to "I'm immune to everything you can send at me, and can even reverse all your spells and hurl fireballs at you." Why the heck does everyone turn into Yami against me? Now, I'll admit to pulling some spells out of my ass from time to time, but those ones I've mostly used to prevent my character from dying from some person that suddenly unlocks their super power. It's not being a good character, and it's lousiness as a player, just shows that you can't separate your feelings from your character's. It's sort of metagaming and godmodding, and, as a result, the worst kind of playing.

It's about having fun and playing well with other people. And, you know what, as a member of a community of rivals, you should know when you've been outsmarted, outplayed, and out-everything else, and you should admit defeat and learn from it. I know I have. Learn how to think on your toes, how to set up dynamic barriers that aren't overpowered or double-standard, but accepts both standards the same: Fer instance, Traps and Talking. Even low-level, underpowered characters can overcome obstacles with these two things in mind. Talking with beings and attempting non-aggression, or finding out character flaws and using it against them, works quite well. Plotmasters, work on having characters with depth that also believe in similar things, and develop character flaws to target. Heck, even in combat, having a single weak point on characters, which are easy to hit, but only with a certain way will even put Llama and Draken on par. ((The Minions are an example of this: Their bodies are immune to almost anything, or are unhindered by tearing at parts of it, but knocking the mask that contains their magic off of them reduces them to a pile of rubble and hay.)) See? Overpowered character don't always have the most fun, especially when the weaknesses look you straight in the eye, all you have to do is remember that the enemy's gate is down. Using traps and keen knowledge to your advantage would work more often if people didn't suddenly overpower their characters to get themselves out of the mess, but, hell, teleportation is a really nifty spell for when you're not ready to avoid a back-lash from a Saw-like set-up.

Now, I know some of you will probably point out places where I screwed up, and you're probably screwed up as well. Oh, well. Keep in mind that these are ideals, and that even I am not perfect, and most likely, no matter what you think, neither are you. It's just that these things to me have been seen as points of OOC anger and frustration with other players, and when it does get to that point, you and the other person you are playing with are no longer having fun. So, stop, and think, "How could my character solve this problem while keeping in [Player's] respect?" Sometimes, you realize that your character doesn't have tricks up his sleeve, and have him loose. Simple enough.

((Note: I am not specifically talking about just recent events, but more over the course of tension that I've been having with several players, and I've highlighted areas where I and them forgot it was just a story, and played to win.))
Admiral_Kelly

Excuse me?

This sounds like an attempt to dictate how everyone else should play their characters. Each of my characters has their own separate and fairly unique personality. If it is in character for them to use diplomacy, they will use diplomacy. If it is in character for them to engage in confrontation, they will fight. And if it is in character for them to find a loophole to an 'impenetrable magical shield', they will do so.
Moxie

Well, that's fine, but don't be angry when it doesn't work. That's what I'm saying. Eventually after your character gets no where with what they do, don't suddenly proclaim a strength that wasn't there, claim defeat, and have your character fail. There's always that choice. Then I go on to say how you, as a player, can create multidimensional characters that don't just get angry and bash into impenetrable walls waiting for them to fall.
Shadow of the Sun

AK?

There is also the fact that if I don't want my character to fight, then he damn well isn't fighting, even if I have to passive godmod, and rules be damned.

He's MY character. What happens to him is up to ME. Not you. So, quite simply, if I say no fighting, then there will be no fighting.
Moxie

Well, now, that's unnecessary, one should automatically give others the respect they deserve. Pick up on the hints to prevent that. Like I said, Sanctuary is a great spell, more than a Non-violence field, since it's personal and pretty much an IC way of saying "I don't want to fight you, leave me alone." You don't just go "Will Save!" on it, because that's being disrespectful to the other players, and if you want to come here with a "Screw you" attitude to other members of the community, then you should really reevaluate your being here.
Shadow of the Sun

Am I being disrespectful? That is not my intention. I am, quite simply, saying that what happens to my characters is in my hands primarily and that it is foolish to assume otherwise.
Moxie

Mostly pointing that there's a difference between a character finding a loophole in an impenetrable field, and a player finding a loophole in an impenetrable field. For instance, teleporting past a wall of force would be a character finding a loophole in an impenetrable field. Will-Saving past a Sanctuary is a Player finding a loophole in an impenetrable field. In the second one, the player is forcing the defending character in the situation rather than being respectful of it's player's intention of keeping that character out of a fight. And that leads to tension and conflict between players. IC is a subtle dance of Character and Player emotions, and you should work on self-control to lead to the benefit of both of them the most.
Admiral_Kelly

Moxie wrote:
Well, that's fine, but don't be angry when it doesn't work. That's what I'm saying. Eventually after your character gets no where with what they do, don't suddenly proclaim a strength that wasn't there, claim defeat, and have your character fail. There's always that choice.
Sometimes you have to recognizes something is a threat to you. Depending on the scenario, this could be passive godmoding. And again, you are telling us how to play our characters.
Moxie wrote:
Then I go on to say how you, as a player, can create multidimensional characters that don't just get angry and bash into impenetrable walls waiting for them to fall.
I find this highly insulting. Just because a character does not act how you think that character should act does not make the character one-dimensional. I told you; my characters have separate personalities. If they attack someone they have a reason for not using diplomacy.

David; you have half a point. Now, I know you do not like fighting, but you cannot bar other players from attacking your own because of this and that goes double for passively godmoding your way out of fights. I have no issues about your characters deciding not to fight at all though.

As for this thing on Sanctuary; the spell specifically states that the attacker must make a will save. If the attacking characters fails the will save, then yes their attack has no effect. If they succeed on the will save, then the attack goes through. You say this is insulting because 'quite clearly' the player does not want to fight? I find it far more insulting to assume it will work without any chance of failure.
Vael

Be polite, guys.
Shadow of the Sun

AK, there is, however, the basic respect that we, as players, must give each other. And that includes, funnily enough, the right to be unhindered if they so want to be. Look for IC clues that someone doesn't want to fight, and abide by them, because it does make you (not you in general, mind) seem rather nicer.
Moxie

No, you see, you think of it as a game that you play to win, AK. And that's why you seem to be thinking I'm insulting you. It is a dance, a play, an interaction, not a PVP MMORPG.

It's fine however the hell you want to play your characters. That's fine; I offer you choices. And yes, a character who's only action or thought is "Bash Stuff" is very one dimensional in my description of the three (Or possibly more, I guess you can count digging under or just walking away as well..) Dimensions of getting past the wall. If your character focuses on one dimension of interaction, then it is one-dimensional. Isn't that logical?

The fact of the matter is, AK, Combat isn't the essential part of a character, and it is merely the sport of the role-play. Really, be a good sport and respect one another before and after, and if you drag someone that doesn't want to play into the sport, they'll just play poorly and become grumpy.
Fenric

Roleplaying purity is not always the best choice.  

Sometimes, it's just time to bring out the double-parenthesis and tell the other person to back off.  If they persist, then get one of us: harassment is not allowed, either.
McBish

It seems to me that players can often try to keep their characters from being in postions where they are going to need to act in a manor that will annoy other players.  If you suspect that a character is going to be fighting another character perhapes you should send a PM asking the player if now is a good time.  This way you can just avoid having your charcters avoid this kind of situation.

Now sometimes characters get caught breaking the law, murdering or something like that.  When they are caught they should expect the police to come after them, till they are put in jail.  If the police don't do that people will moan about them not doing there job.  If you want to avoid this do one of two things, spend your time in jail it is rarely that long.  Or don't commit crimes directly in front of witnesses or cops.  Trog's is not the best place to shoot or stab someone without expecting reprecusions.
Moxie

That is true, but at the same time, there should be durations for crimes like such. My character shouldn't be chased by cops forever due to the minor assault charge I received three months ago. Nor should cops blow things way out of proportion and try to slice my head off for stealing a candy-bar. I admit that the Police are more of a force that's built more on their reputation and lawful stance than their actual arms. Like real police. I mean, you do what a police officer says, why? It's not always the gun, a lot of people have guns of their own, it's because cops have that respect.

In fact, it's because I deal with cops with Respect rather than fear in real life, I get along with them fairly well.
Destro Yersul

Me, I don't see any insults at all here. I see opinions, and that's fine with me. To use my characters as an example, because I know them the best out of all the characters in Town and this way no one can complain about my telling them how to play their characters, because I'm only saying how I play mine. But I digress.

Destro is sort of a blunt instrument, especially when angry. If you piss him off, his first answer is force. Fortunately it takes a fair bit to piss him off, and he'll be at least civil to you as long as you don't. Diplomacy is an answer for him, but it's an unfamiliar one. He's not really all that good at it. So he doesn't use it often, and always feels a bit out of his league when he does. However, he loves finding loopholes. To use the wall of force example from earlier, Destro has three options. He can get around it in any number of ways, most involving some sort of teleport effect. He can knock it down with a disintegrate. Or he can stop and try to reason with the person who put it there. Given his personality, he's more likely to use option one or two. That's just how he is.

If something fails, have a backup plan. Backup plans are one of the best things ever. Town is so random, influenced by so many people, that it's hard to predict accurately what will happen. There is frequently no one answer. There are answers A through R, any of which could occur. So if you're faced by an impossible solution, try to come up with an inventive answer that's within the characters stated ability. To use Destro again: When magic doesn't work, he'll switch to Negative Mode and try physical force instead. If that doesn't work, he'll try unusual application of magic. If that fails as well, there's always diplomacy. And when all else fails, run like Frak.

Maybe I'm just restating things. Maybe I'm crazy. But I think that there is no right or wrong way to play Town. You act as you think your character would, and you try to step on people's toes as little as possible. Feel free to ignore my ramblings if you so choose.
Kyrian

But with regards to this last weekend, that's NOT what happened.
Moxie

What did happen this weekend is a misunderstanding followed by misunderstanding, starting with Debunny's misinterpretation of the arrows that Quote: "should feel like being shot with a nerf dark" impaling a dragon. But fine, I'm one to avoid OOC arguments and addendum so I rolled with it, which somehow got me an assault charge. That's like being charged with murder for giving someone juice and them mistaking it for poison. But yeah, not dwelling on it, just reflecting upon the large amount of anger that has taken place between me and other players over miscommunication and other stuff, and how conversations that I've had with people over MSN and stuff had people going, "Well, fine, maybe my anger was misplaced." And then I admit that I am a bit of an instigator and as such, my tactic seems to be to tunnel vision people into only seeing option A despite the fact that I offer advice into options B-R.
Vael

Kyrian wrote:
But with regards to this last weekend, that's NOT what happened.

Lets not bring that up.
Fenric

This topic is going downhill fast.  Discussion of playing styles all to often becomes a flame-fest, and this is already teetering on the edge.

Locking the topic.

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