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Fax Celestis

Nationhood?

For a good portion of my life, I was part of a little something: micronational politics.

Micronational politics themselves are basically different groups of internet forums calling themselves "nations" and having relations, economic trade, etc. with each other.

If we were to become a micronation (in our case, a city-state), what we'd need at this point is a governmental structure, a flag, a name, and to declare our existence to the MCS. We already have the name and most of a governmental structure (the council), I've posted a flag in the logo thread. The MCS is here, and the current map is here.

An excerpt from Shireroth's Guide to Micronationalism:

Quote:
What is micronationalism?
As the name implies, micronationalism is the game/hobby/way-of-life based on creating and living in small nations. It has many levels, from people who treat it as a role-playing game to people who are dead serious about seceding from the United States or elsewhere as soon as they get enough military might to back themselves up. Shireroth falls in between. We have no real secessionist aspirations and follow all United States laws, but we do try and maintain at least a tenuous grip on reality most of the time. All micronations are looking for new immigrants who are interested in contributing something to the community, and Shireroth is no exception. If what you see in this guide seems interesting to you, please consider joining us.

Is this a role-playing game?
The most common misconception about micronations held by those new to them is the belief that they are an RPG, or somehow separate from the real world. This is not the case. Do not make yourself a character or expect someone to care if you claim to have built something, achieved something, or, God forbid, killed someone.

If it is helpful, consider Shireroth not to be a simulation of a country but rather a real country that happens to be conducting many of its affairs on the Internet. It has a legislature, a university, a square for general discussion, et cetera. This way of looking at things should prevent you from falling into the role-playing trap.

So what do you do?
Whatever we want, basically. People are always coming up with more ideas to make Shireroth a more interesting place. However, most stuff that happens here generally falls into a few areas:

- We pass laws. Laws can concern everything from what holidays we celebrate to our foreign policy to who gets noble titles. This is really the backbone of the whole system. As a new immigrant, you will not be directly involved in the legislative process. However, you can watch the proceedings of the Landsraad and are encouraged to tell your Duke or Baron your opinion on issues.

- We conduct foreign relations. There are many other micronations around, and some of them, like Antica and Babkha, are very close to Shireroth, often working with us or conspiring against us on various plans. The Ministry of the Exterior works on writing treaties, negotiating solutions to problems, keeping informed on what our friends and enemies are doing, and trying to convince foreign countries to act in ways that benefit us. Sometimes we just visit and say hi.

- We have a military and an intelligence agency. The military chiefly participates in "recwars", a uniquely micronational sport similar to RPGs in many ways. Intelligence often consists of having foreign contacts who are willing to sell Shireroth information on their nations and of infiltrating enemy countries with spies before they can do the same to us.

- We create fiction. We have developed a rich fictional culture, a couple of stories, and some history for our lands and institutions. Usually this is done as a side or an embellishment to the government work, but there are some people who prefer just to write stuff or role-play without any official government jobs.

- We make stuff. From launching model rockets under the guise of a space program to broadcasting KIRS, Shireroth's own radio station, people with hobbies tend to find that associating them with Shireroth makes them more fun and gets people interested in them.


Do note that all of this is local to Shireroth itself, and is therefore malleable to our ends--in particular, the RPG portion of the preceding quote.

Is this something people are interested in? It'd bring a whole new aspect to the town.
DeBunny

O.o

This...looks...REALLY COOL.

Ahem...

Anyway, I think this could be something rather interesting for us to do. I'm game.
Nevrmore

I love stuff like this, but could never find a suitable replica of running a nation. To me, Nationstates is too simple, but Cybernations is too complex. This seems to be a pretty good balance.
Fax Celestis

Any questions?
DeBunny

Yes...what *exactly* would we be required to do if we joined this? As individuals.
wxdruid

This does sound cool. Smile
Vael

So the real question is, what do we gain from this, and what can we lose from it?
Wukei

I don't like the idea. We try to keep ourselves quiet...this seems to invite tons of others into our group...
Fax Celestis

As individuals, the place largely wouldn't change. We'd need a centralized government, and for them, they'd have to handle the maintenance associated with immigration, leadership, etc...which really wouldn't be any different than what they do now, from my understanding, except it'd be formalized.

What can we gain? A wider community and a deeper depth to RP in. As it is now, the government of the Town seems like an afterthought, where I--and probably some others here--think it should play a bigger part.

What can we lose? Not much, honestly. Those who don't wish to participate don't have to. Those that do wish to can have a new kind of political fun.

And as for inviting in many new people, it's really not doing that, particularly if we use decent immigration procedure that require RP references.
Shadow of the Sun

Hmm...

*Thinks about the fun I could have RPing someone like Lord Vetinari...*

Sounds good.
wxdruid

I'm afraid I'm with Fax on this, it sounds like an interesting way to expand what the Mayor and Council does. (besides lose herself in being a cat). Although I think the Town as a whole may not be ready for this jump.
Wukei

I just think it's the exact thing we were trying to avoid. People knowing where we are.
Fax Celestis

Wukei wrote:
I just think it's the exact thing we were trying to avoid. People knowing where we are.


They can know where we are. Immigration procedure prevents unwanted citizens. Besides, most of those who are part of "micronational culture" are political simulationists, not heavy RPers.
Wukei

It still gives us a point on the map for people to find us.
Fax Celestis

...again, so?
wxdruid

I think that some people don't want to be found. They would like the Town to remain in Isolation. I can't say as I blame them.

I think I would enjoy the interaction with other small nations and immigration laws would be a good way to keep unwanted people out. But I'm not sure a lot of people are ready for this jump, we just separated from GitP and are still forming/organizing our Town.
Fax Celestis

Well, I'm not saying now. There's no pressing need to go out and do this right now--if at all. However, I stand by my statements above that it'd be an interesting and fulfilling way to expand the functions of the Town's government.

I propose we discuss if and how to assume nationhood without joining other micronations at this time, and potentially set up a method for joining with them at a later date. Whether or not the method is used is another thing entirely.
wxdruid

I find it an interesting prospect and I'm willing to discuss it with you. I, of course, cannot make the decision in the future of joining or not, that would be left up to a majority vote of everyone (as that would be a large step). But I am interested in finding out more.
Fax Celestis

Would anyone mind if I asked someone more versed in the finer aspects of micronationalism to discuss it with us?
wxdruid

well, any additions to the board have to go through Vael and Sophistemon
Fax Celestis

No, I understand that, and I'd follow the set pattern for that. I just mean, would it be all right with the people here if I asked someone to talk to us about it--someone more eloquent than I?
wxdruid

Well, I'm the Mayor of Town, I've already talked to Vael, he doesn't mind if I discuss this with you. I'm logically one of the possible people to discuss this with and I have no claim to eloquence.
Fax Celestis

I understand that. I just don't think I can get across the topics that need to be discussed as well...that, and I could be construed as biased.
wxdruid

Ah, hehe, that's fine, I am curious to know more.
Wukei

Perhaps you could ask them to explain it to you and post it here yourself...
Geomancer

I read this, and at first I got excited. I used to love to play Nationstates, but the forums where all the roleplaying happened where always so slow... I thought you where offering a place for us to roleplay entire nations, singularly and with only each other.

But the whole forum becoming a micronation and then jumping in with other forums doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
Gnrlshrimp

I would prefer it if we remained isolated as well, even with immigration laws it puts us on the map and makes us too well known for my liking. But I'm naturally biased against something like this considering I deliberately try to isolate myself from the world...

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