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NecroPaladin

I don't know anymore...

I don't know if I have any faith left in the New Town. It was a glorious prospect when we created it, but...I don't know anymore.

On one side of the coin, we were trying to make a utopian little society for our characters. We were trying to stop the godmodders and immature idiots that so plague our plot threads. It was a crusade with good reason, and I believed in it. I do not any longer.

Let's face it.

We may not have idiots anymore, but we're not much better. We've torn ourselves to pieces with rules when we could have had guidelines. In fact, guidelines would have been more appropriate, because the rules are ignored regardless. We've become in many ways hypocritical. The way I look at it, I may very well move back to the Old Town, unless we become open-door and just reinvent the New Town as a copy of the Old Town with less lag. Even so, there's so much bitterness towards us New-Towners (most of it without reason, because as I said, we were in the right, and we did what we could to provide an enjoyable experience for ourselves) that even if we did become open-door I'm not sure that anyone would want in anymore.

We're failing. For a number of reasons, but we're failing.

We didn't need a centralized power to begin with. Attempts at power just made things go worse and worse. Our admins, rather than simply enforcing the rules, sometimes went out of their way either to create/propose rules that they'd like to see, or shoot down ones that might prove detrimental to their characters.

A note: I hate ubers. I'm sure that I've mentioned that all too often before. I've decided that it's time to stop whining about it. As such, if I don't want to deal with a character that I percieve as "uber," I'm going to be a petty jackass and ignore said character. I'm tired of scaling my characters to be more and more ludicrously powerful to avoid getting fragged the first time they get in a fight. We're never, ever going to solve that problem as a group so I'm going to solve it just for my own sake.

Vael was caught in a very bad position to begin with. As our founder, all of the pressure was on him. Ultimately, he ended up just looking more and more desperate and hypocritical, to the point where I and others held no respect whatsoever for him, but he was also under a sheer rock face of stress.

Not helping this was Rex Idiotarum, who seemed to go out of his way to demonize and badmouth New Towners. Rex is a flamer, through and through. He's an intelligent flamer, but he's a flamer. Vael let him get under his skin (who wouldn't?), and their little blood feud ended up taking a turn for the worse when us New Towners split off. Vael was our de facto leader, and as such Rex was able to categorize all of us under the big umbrella that is the shit he throws at Vael. And as such, we are now entirely despised by a large amount of Old Towners, easily swayed by a boy who spews fire and brimstone with no real logic in mind.

I'm sorry, Vael.

I really am.

And I'm sorry, Old Town, if any Old Towners read this. Rebonack and Geo may say that we were doomed to begin with, due to our closed-door policy...

But we weren't.

We fucked ourselves over.

We're still fucking ourselves over.

I've accepted that.

I'm going to continue posting in the New Town. I'm not abandoning it. But know that I'm not enjoying myself nearly as much as I think I should be. I'm really having a lot of second thoughts that I don't think I ever should have considered.

I shall make a more permanent decision in due time. That is all.
Geomancer

I don't know about anyone else, but I am certainly feeling a lot of the same things you are Necro. We weren't doomed from the start except that we doomed ourselves with rules and regulations that basically choked us to death. In my opinion a town were you have a thread to regulate plots isn't a town at all.

I recently started posting in old town again on Rebonack's advice. I am already having more fun there then I did in New Town except in the very beginning when we were all inspired by having this new lag free place to roleplay in.

In fact if it wasn't for the fact that the Conservatory is still here, I probably wouldn't be posting in town at all anymore.

I don't think an open door policy will help at all though. If we open our doors to old town we'll be lucky to get five people. They don't like us over there and for good reason. We've all proven ourselves to be supremest snobs to some degree. Keeping people out because they godmod I can understand, but keeping them out because they just aren't good roleplayers yet is what killed us in my opinion.

I think New Town is going to keep dwindling. I don't think open doors or anything else is going to revive it.
Ms Elaneous

I've been afraid of this all summer and was hoping it was just summer.

It's not.

Somewhere, we lost the randomness and fun and got caught up in a lot of stupid rules, power struggles, and personal feuds. We lost the life's blood that was a large number of people all doing different things and all being interested in one another. Awesome plots I've seen fall because people don't get out and get involved because their characters are simply busy. We needed more people of all kinds, doing silly, stupid, serious, and storyful stuff all along.

And this is truly depressing. I can't hardly stand it, but it's the truth. This place is dying because we've cut off all circulation with these rules.
Nevrmore

Some of this sounds like a pretty sweet plot for a story.

Just saying.
Rebonack

It's pretty much been said.

It should have been open to begin with and we should have just ban-hammered the idiots. And it's really too late to fix that now. As I've told other people, I came here to help with the loading issue.

And that's mostly fixed.

Hence, I'm not going to be posting on the new Town. For me, it has served its purpose.

As for why it died?

Totally a lack of Descartes.
Nevrmore

DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS ON ME, REBONACK!

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with [mod powers]. Who's gonna do it? You? You, [Necropaladin]? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for [Geomancer], and you curse the [New Town]. You have that luxury. The luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Geomancer's] death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because, deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. The [New Town] uses words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone for a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said, "Thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you [get off your ass and make a post.] Either way, I don't give a damn about what you think you're entitled to!

I memorized this for my Speech class freshman year, word.
Darkblade

I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.
Nevrmore

Darkblade wrote:
I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.

Thus is human nature.
NecroPaladin

Nevrmore wrote:
DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS ON ME, REBONACK!

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with [mod powers]. Who's gonna do it? You? You, [Necropaladin]? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for [Geomancer], and you curse the [New Town]. You have that luxury. The luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Geomancer's] death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because, deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. The [New Town] uses words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone for a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said, "Thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you [get off your ass and make a post.] Either way, I don't give a damn about what you think you're entitled to!

I memorized this for my Speech class freshman year, word.


I value the serious and constructive commentary, Nevr. I would say more, but I've completely run out of spite.
atreyu_the_masked_llama

Darkblade wrote:
I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.


I second the Canuck!
Nevrmore

I just think you're making way too big a deal about this.

Oh no, Rex is badmouthing us on a forum. The political climate is rapidly expanding, soon we might have to declare war.

Have there been mistakes made on this forum? Sure, there's no arguing that, but you're acting like each one was a mortal sin against you.

You argue against the closed door policy, even though, if my memory serves, you voted against opening Enupnion to everyone when Vael proposed it weeks (months?) ago. If you're going to blame him for that, blame yourself too, buddy.

Ubers; We all hate them. Stop acting like Enupnion is the only forum in the world where they occur. That's all I've to say about that.

Anarchy of the forums is going to end badly. You think Vael and Sophie and whoever else should step down? It might work better for awhile. Just like you thought that New Town worked better for awhile. But Darkblade hit the nail right on the head. Soon enough, you're going to find something else to bitch about.

I like you, Necropaladin. You're an awesome artist and a fun RPer, but your anger is misplaced and I feel like you're just accepting the shit other people are shoveling.

Take a step off the soap box.

There, is that serious enough for you?
NecroPaladin

Thanks, I'd much prefer that.

On a seperate note, I did mention that I took up the 'crusade,' as I put it, when it started. I was pro-closed-door.

Now, I am not.

And I'm not saying ubers only happen on Enupnion. I'm just saying that I felt the need to say that I'm no longer acknowledging them unless I believe it acceptable regardless of whether I quit the Town or not.



On yet another seperate note, I am only on the soap box because I and a few others felt this way (you know who you are), and I figured I should write it because they had been less of the angry skeptic type in the past and it suited me better.
Orange Zergling

I am also starting to get some of this feeling. I mean, seriously, Plot Registration? What the fuck? While we're at it, lets switch to D&D and require people to fully stat out their characters. I understand guidelines like "If there's another invasion going on, it'd be a good idea to wait till it's done," rather than "One invasion at a time. No exceptions.".

Not relevant, but I too have a very, very, very strong dislike for OMFG UBER characters. I know she's been around waaay before Enupnion, but Aesa is looking more and more like the representation of "I'm the admin, I do whatever the fuck I want." Sunn, not much better. Gent... Gent doesn't fight, he isn't a total prick, but it still toes the line in my opinion.
DeBunny

I'll just say that the current state (and degrading state, it would seem) of my beloved roleplaying escape makes me just a touch sad.
I won't claim to understand exactly why we're falling apart, as I'm sure it has been already stated, or close perhaps, but it would seem that we are.

If you expect some drawn out paragraph describing my feeling and theories on this topic, I'm afraid I cannot supply that.

Only this: I am sad.
Hoseki

(Side note- I get really nervous when people start going on about how they hate Sunn, and they hate Aesa, and they hate Gent, because I'm never sure if Gatamu, Hoseki, and the other hoppers are being included in the classification of 'ubers.' They're not gods, they don't make second and twentieth instances of themselves, but what can you really do about it if Gatamu decides he doesn't need your permission to eat you?)

I don't know why everyone else came here- to escape the lag, to get away from godmodders and bad roleplayers, whatever- but I came here because by the time Real Life had released me, everyone with whom I enjoyed playing with Back in the Day was here, if they were anywhere. Sure, this Trog's isn't as busy, there are some people I hadn't known, but Hoseki looked upon Enupnion and declared it good.

I still have fun with New Town- Calpurnia's plot slowly moves forward, Hoseki has excess drama, Valathe is still obsessed with numbers. Not to say that New Town is completely perfect- yeah, there are rough spots- but for me, at least, this is a good place where I don't have to stress about Real Life.

If there are problems, there are probably solutions. If people think rules are choking us, then let's talk. We're the mature ones, yes? That generally implies that we can discuss and reason our way through problems rather than handing out Big Books o' Rules.
Vael

I find this oddly similar to the thread I posted a while back about enjoying old town more than the new town...
NecroPaladin

As of a few minutes ago, I just figured,

Fuck it.

I'm going to roleplay.

If the New Town collapses, I'm going to roleplay in the Old Town.

So be it.
Vael

Aha... here it is:

Vael wrote:
As some of you know, I have created a character in Old Town.
As some of you also know, I have been greatly disturbed by the fact that Town doesn't seem quite as fun as it used to be.

The reason I bring these two things up is because I noticed, to my astonishment (and possibly a bit of horror) I was having more fun playing in old Town that in new Town.
...
That said something to me.
Something has been lost here. I don't know what, I don't know why, but a little voice inside of me whispers an answer that I don't like.

: We've become a bunch of stuffy gits who need to get over themselves and have fun.

Yeah, going into old Trog's will cause Nightwing to send a guy with a gun to shoot you, or his infamous Truck to pretend to be a dog and prance around you. Yeah, a lot of the people there are pretty bad in some aspects of following the rules. Yeah, a ton of them have writing and story telling that would give english majors heart attacks.
But you know what? They don't care. They have fun, they acknowledge the other players (even if they dislike it), they plot, they do things spontaneously, randomly, destructively... and they all enjoy it. They all, in their chaos, work together as a whole and create their Town and have fun interacting.

As I turn my gaze back at us, I see a fragmented, 'organized' Town that tidily asks permission of each other to even toss fireballs. We argue over whether someone should have potent powers, or whether someone should do their plot or not. We don't interact with each other out of sheer politeness and acknowledgement of the rules that we have so prettily set up, and thus we are divided, ignore what is going on with other characters, fail to interact with each other, and lose what our roleplaying is all about.

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I felt I had puzzled this out in my mind, I was rather ashamed. Not that I had been 'beaten' by the people of Old Town, but ashamed of myself for losing sight of what really was the goal of all of this: To have fun.
Even Nightwing, of all people, seemed to understand this better than I did... hell, his bizarre, ever changing, godmodding, insane characters have honestly provided me more fun than I have had in a long time here. It made me a bit sad, to tell you the truth. Sad that I had been too stuck up to see how much we actually needed those kind of elements- the whirlwind of chaos, the unexpected encounters... something that made you actually think about how your character would respond and interact.

I'm not suggesting we invite all of the people we left behind. I'm not even going to say that I got this correct- for all I know the people here could be still enjoying Town and dread the sort of chaos I speak of. But I think I've gotten a glimpse at the 'red tape' Geomancer was speaking about. Why he had lost interest in Town. It has happened to me, and I haven't even noticed the transition until the silly people in Old Town showed it to me.

I hope this helps something, or someone.
NecroPaladin

I like order. I don't like fascism. This is ironic, given my title. I'm protesting the authority, not the basic idea of some basis that we should all follow.

And, as stated last post, I'm beyond even caring. My standards are too high.
Nevrmore

Nevrmore decides to forego anything more he was going to say, signs, and exits stage left.

He would like to thank everyone for attending the comedy.
Vael

Well, you know what I say?
Fuck it.
I'm tired of being in charge, and though I like it here, you guys obviously don't like my decisions. I'm tired of making them too, because no matter what I say, SOMEONE gets mad at me.

Anyone else want a shot? Cause I quit.
Seft Sirag

*sigh* It seems things deteriorated in the half-hour or so it took me to write the following, kind of making it null-and-void now, but I'll put this in anyway.

Advanced warning - this got a little all-over-the-place/ranty/blathering due to it currently being about 4am and the fact I'm currently suffering from some throat bug thing (which happens to be keeping me up =/) anyway...

Quote:
Only this: I am sad.


I second this, and what Hoseki said.

In my current state, as almost a lurker, the rules and politics are far beyond me - I just turn up as and when I can to post a couple of lines that go nowhere, affect very few, and achieve little, letting the debates and conversations go on above my head.

Having said that, things like this worry me. Whilst you're all still working to improvbe this place, I feel that the PRing environment is secure still. But as soon as this sparks again, I start to lose people I could one day potentially RP with.

We're gaining very few to no new people, we've lost a lot of old friendly faces and it looks like we may be set to lose more. I'm starting to worry that I may drop in one day, to find that everyone's moved on, or back to GitP Town.

As far as I'm concerned, if that point comes, my short-lived RPing days are over with. Because of my situation regarding university, I'd seriosuly considered retiring all my characters from Old Town even before people started to disappear, and wasn't intending to start doing anything similar again.

However, I was delighted when Vael finally got round to inviting me over here - it felt almost like coming home after a long time away - I felt that I'd left too much unfinished before, and was glad of a chance to continue almost where I'd left off. At the time, I had high hopes for this place, and I still do.

It hasn't been a year yet - maybe (read "Pete Hopes") we just need a little more time to sort out the odd kink here and there.

One thing's for certain, though. I'm not going back to Old Town.
Ms Elaneous

What if a new town was made, not the same as Enupnion? That opened all the doors to new people? None of this ridiculous invite business. That was wrong from the beginning, I now see.

Also, the increased Old Town flux has started slowing down the GiantITP forums again. We need a separate space. What are your thoughts?
atreyu_the_masked_llama

I think your idea has merit, Ms E. Care to expound on it further?
NecroPaladin

Ms Elaneous wrote:
What if a new town was made, not the same as Enupnion? That opened all the doors to new people? None of this ridiculous invite business. That was wrong from the beginning, I now see.

Also, the increased Old Town flux has started slowing down the GiantITP forums again. We need a separate space. What are your thoughts?


I have shared my opinions via MSN, and find yours to my liking.
wxdruid

I prefer to post here....I don't really have much to say. I like it here. I don't have to worry about half the stuff I had to worry about in GitP. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. After Gwen is finished being Mayor over there and Jaric dies, that's pretty much it. I'll be over here, with the people I like and love the most.

Town here is what I want.
Nevrmore

So you're proposing to completely abandon this site and start over again?

If you really want change that much, don't you think it'd be easier to just stay here and strip down all the naxisim you think is in the administration?
Ms Elaneous

Yes, that is pretty much what I am proposing. A boat full of holes can only be patched so many times. I think what we might need is a fresh start for everyone. Enupnion kind of has some bad feelings attached. Not to mention that an admin needs to be changed, so it would seem. It would actually be simpler to merely start over rather than pour through every inch of this and put it back together right.
McBish

I have started today to start posting back in old town to see what I can see. I am by no means abandoing this place, I have and still do enjoy this site. The reasons for posting here still exist, I have never felt stiffled by the rules here. The only thing is that I feel it is hard to pull people into random plot stuff I have going on in my head, or to be pulled into other peoples.
The Chilli God

Alright. I actually have real opinions about this.
Which is scary, because I quite often don't have a real opinion.

Completely off-the-hook story about Old Town
I went back to Old Town for about half an hour during last week...
Spoiler:

...After endless worrying and fretting that I would get pretty much the same godmodding idiotic activity that made me leave for good (See: "My Plot! My Beautiful Plot" on the Chit/Chat). I fully intended to have MURK kill himself in Trog's Tavern by yelling out "Quiet quiet quiet quiet quiet quiet quiet..." So I had a failsafe of sorts, even if it meant shoving MURK back to life about a month later.
It was quite good at first. MURK came in, he looked around, declared hunger, got given food, and actually almost got involved in a plot straight off the bat! Despite some dispute that I saw just earlier, something about a Reesus Monkey or whatever the heck it is, I was thinking, hey, this ain't so bad. If you can keep up with what's being posted.

Of course, there was an almost. Because soon after said plot instigator accepted MURK's hug, he was attacked by an improvised dagger trap to the crutch, was killed by something else that I cannot remember, and then his associate was attacked by tonberry assassins. Apparently, tonberry assassins are not slow-moving monsters that coined the phrase, Getting Doinked. They were intelligent combatants that had alien body structures and lightning speeds and that coined the phrase, Getting Doinked.

And then Rex's main came in and arrested her for something, using Bullets of You're Under F***in' Arrest, Bitch and stuff to whisk away said associate.

And then I faked deadtime just to get away from it.


Rebo or Geo or Vael or Osnagard. You were there, IIRC. PLEASE, for the love of all mercy, tell me that isn't typical Old Town behavior!


In summary, you have two extremes. Old Town is the one with absolute no-holds-barred chaos, and New Town is the one with tight-set rules.
Old Town is the one with all the godmodders, New Town is the one with all the veterans.
Old Town is the one where it is apparently easier to get your character involved in something, New Town is the one where it is apparently as difficult as trying to look at the back of your neck without fetching a mirror.
Old Town is the one where it is also easier to have your plots ruined by idiots. New Town is the one where the plots are more likely to be ruined by absolutely nothing.
Old Town is where all of the fresh blood is pouring in almost on a weekly basis. New Town sees an estimate of 5% of these new people slither in through the recruiters.
Old Town is chaos. New Town is law. Apparently, neither of them work.
What we need is neutral. What we need is, put simply, Town.

I like Ms E's idea of a new new town. It'd make the first one or two attempts rather redundant and silly-looking, and it might just open the flood gates for idiotic godmodders to come in and burn our houses, steal our treasures, rape our children, etc, but I reckon it needs to happen in order to breathe a little bit of life into this place and put some form of restraint on that other place.
However. IF we are going to even think of writing up plans for Town 3.0, even if we are going to be using this very same site to host it (and I hope we do, if bandwidth allows it), and even if we are still going to be a teensy bit stingy on who we let in (this includes the banning of flaming godmodding idiots, though I think that a Spam-Town to send them to if they want to have idiotic godmodding fun would be more preferable), I believe that we MUST let the Old-Towners have their full say in absolutely everything that goes into the new version. Even if it means a flame war. Even if it means that there are going to be some people that say "F*** this!" and walk away from both towns never to be seen again. If we don't get everyone who is going to be involved in this, involved in this, it will never work. We have to reach out to EVERYBODY from the absolute beginning, otherwise there is going to be a gap that will never heal. New Town might curl up and die, Old Town will be sliced in half like a hot cross bun fresh from the microwave, and there will be so much more bad feelings arising from this mess than is necessary.

We're all mature, we've all proved it by being invited here. Now we can prove it again, by inviting everyone into a place that may not necessarily require maturity.

And I wish that there is going to be something, somewhere, in this still-theoretical creation of Town 3.0 that I could seriously help with. Not just sitting on the side and saying to myself, "Oh, something's happened!" or not even being aware of what is happening until it's happened already and I wasn't told. If you haven't experienced that before, and I've experienced it for most of my life with the exception of three major projects, It stinks.


...I feel weird. Confused
Wukei

NecroPaladin wrote:
As of a few minutes ago, I just figured,

Fuck it.

I'm going to roleplay.

If the New Town collapses, I'm going to roleplay in the Old Town.

So be it.


I'd just like to state that the opposite holds true for me.

I was constantly told basically to go fuck myself in olde Town. So I don't plan on going back.
The Chilli God

Wukei wrote:
I was constantly told basically to go fuck myself in olde Town. So I don't plan on going back.
But, if what other posters here have said is true, we've already done that.

Did they ask for anything else? Razz
Shadow of the Sun

I would like to say that as an admin, I think Vael has served us incredibly well and democratically. Every decision he made consulted us in some way, from the top to the bottom; I remember staying up 'til 6AM on a school day to help us make this place, and there were about 20 other people there. Yes, he made some decisions that didn't go along with your opinion, big whoop. You canNOT accommodate everyone as a leader, and as long as you aren't opposing him just out of spite, everything should end up balancing out on matters about something that is supposed to be fun.

As things are, we've begun to choke ourselves to death. We're restricting ourselves more and more and more and more, until we don't have enough room to breath. That said, we need SOME restriction; it's like the difference between being crushed and being spaced- without enough pressure on us from the rules, we explode, too much and we collapse into ourselves like a roleplaying black hole- the metaphor fits surprisingly well, because nothing sucks more than a black hole.

I would personally request that every person that reads this post consider the creation of a third town; a blend of new and old, the freedom to play, too plot, to be crazy...WHILE having enough restriction so that we reach the correct balance of freedom and rules, the correct balance of pressure and vacuum...something that will, I suppose, give us the perfect atmosphere for roleplaying.

When I came here, I simply wanted somewhere where I could play without being godmodded, or having my characters stalked, where I didn't have to give myself an aneurysm trying to read someone's posts. I still do (although I'm willing to be lenient on spelling and punctuation...to an extent). But I don't want a place of such excessive organization that we lose our inherent chaos; the only thing I think I see as really beneficial is putting some penalty on godmodding.

HOWEVER. There is one other matter that I have to bring up: characters. If we make a New New Town, then I don't want to lose my characters here, or their history. One of my characters has had a child and is expecting more, another is soon to be a father, one of them is married, one is engaged...I don't want to lose these months of development on our parts for something completely new- I don't want a complete reboot. I want something more along the lines of buying a new system while keeping the old data. Another problem is integrating the two towns into one if we do that...

That is my (ineloquently expressed, I fear) opinion, for good or for ill.
Kyrian

All I can think of right now to say to all of this, is I personally feel against the creation of a 3rd Town.

My thoughts, at the moment (note it's 3am here, and I'm about to pass out) is that we should allow more people from GitP over here, ease up on SOME of the rules, not all of them, and crack down on people that refuse to change their ways and continue to godmod and be idiotic and all.
The Herald

Here's my proposal:

  1. Identify the rules here that are stifling our creativity.
  2. Chuck them out.
  3. Open up to the people from Old Town. We aren't getting enough new blood. We're becoming creatively inbred, if I may use the term. If we let people in freely, then that should fix that problem.
  4. Apply the rules we retain to force immature, idiotic roleplayers to choose between growing up, not interfering with serious roleplayers, or getting banhammered.


That's my proposed solution.

Rules I think need to go/Changes that should be implemented:
  1. The "No Immigration" policy. I understand why it was instituted, but I think it was an overreaction, and as outlived whatever usefulness it once had.
  2. The Plot Registration policy, to a degree. Only Town-wide plots should have to be registered and approved.
  3. There needs to be a clearer division between the IC Council vs. the OOC Council.


That's all I can think of at the moment.
The Chilli God

Yeah, the thing with just opening those flood gates is that if we do that recklessly, then we might hardly get anyone coming through, and the problem might not be any better.
Those people who weren't invited to New Town are most likely going to get banned anyway. Either that, or (If what's been said about Rex is true) they simply won't accept us anymore if we suddenly thrust our town into their face and say "Join us! We need you!"
...Assuming a worst-case scenario if the situation is looked at with no actual care. If we aren't going to go ahead with Town 3.0 but will open up to the Old Towners, then for the sake of old hatreds fostered, we have to be very careful and diplomatic about it.

In fact, we're going to have to be very careful and diplomatic about it even if we do have Town 3.0. The big difference is that we'd be sitting tight and forcing others into our town with our rules and our consequences, instead of working together with both Towns' interests taken into full consideration and coming to a compromise with both sides - sounds much more democratic, doesn't it?
I advise care because, if we botch up and everyone hates us too much to join, that's it. No saved game. No practice shots.

And, I still advocate the idea of Spam-Town, just so those people that get banned from Town 2 or Town 3 still have a place to godmod and whatever (OMG, another Town?!? *Evil glares at Chilli all around*). Because it's better than being outright excluded from every town.
Deadly

I keep seeing this. And I dont even drink nearly enough to start seeing double.

Before ranting, let me summarize my standpoint:

- I don't support a 3rd forum, if we can't make it work here it'll just fail again.
- I think Vael has done well as our admin. I imagine it must be a hell with all our whining and complaining. I don't envy you, Vael.
- We need to stop pointing fingers!!!!
- Our problems are negativity and timidity (or arrogance, maybe)

Now, to rant!

Some might have noticed that I've been rather inactive this weekend or so. There are a few reasons, but it's not really so much because of the fact that I've been busy trying to beat a new game. The truth is that I sit here, in between playing the game, and lurk, and I think to my self "Self, you should post something. Go into Trog's and have a drink or go talk to someone in Inari's" and to that I reply "No Me, I'm tired. I don't really feel like playing in Town right now."

And that really makes me sad. I don't want to grow tired of this place, not really because I'll miss playing here, but because I'll really miss the people here, the friends I've made here. But right now I'm a bit weary of playing in Town, and I really hope it's just temporary, maybe due to my frustration at this new game. But I'll get back to this.

Some might also have noticed that I've been doing my best recently to wrap up lingering plots, get rid of characters and generally clean up in my plot/character list. But the reason for that is something different. I'm tired of plots. I'm tired of running plots, and I'm particularly tired of running plots that fail miserably in various ways. I'm also tired of having too many characters to keep track of. I really, really, really envy those of you who only have one or two characters that you play. I'm sorely tempted to throw out all my characters and come back with just one.

My plan, before this wearyness took over, was to end all my plots and cut down on my active characters, but most importantly to always try and have a character in Trog's or something, always have a character ready to participate in whatever might pop up. That is the essence of my plans, and provided I don't succumb entirely to weariness that is what I'll be doing.

Why? Because if you look at our fine little Town, it is drowning in personal plots and people doing their own little things, usually with few others involved. And people are seemingly too timid to involve themselves in plots or things going on, unless invited. Even if invited. Or is it arrogance, perhaps? As many have noted, Trog's isn't nearly as active as it used to be. I think Inari's has been rather quiet at times too, I think most posts in Inari's are a few regulars talking and relaxing. Atleast that's the impression.

This is where I break down and start ranting and raving about how you all piss me off and how you all fuck up and make mistakes and frustrate the hells out of me! But I don't! Because you know what? I believe negativity grows, and it spreads, and it grows far beyond reason and into madness and ruins everything. And that's what I witness here.

We're so busy! Busy ranting and rambling and pointing fingers and raving about this and that and whatever! And every time it seems we grow more frustrated, more angry and more fingers are pointed and more people throw up their hands in frustration and leave! And every time, Town dies a little more.

So instead of playing, instead of just having fun, we degrade into negativity and mad ravings. And THAT'S one thing that can make me tired, drain me of all energy and will to play. And that's what truely kills Town!

I see complains about the plot registration. But, seriously, have it been used since the beginning? I've pretty much been ignoring it, and it seems to me most people do the same. It is, as I see it, effectively void by the virtue of not being used. Maybe, just maybe, we complain just for the sake of doing so, just to be negative and have a reason to rant.

Let's unsticky the plot registration and get on with our lives, and our play.
Darkblade

A common theme I see in the majority of the posts is that Rex is some sort of final voice in Olde Town. I've been talking to a few Olde Townies. They are a bit upset they weren't invited but would come as fast as they can if the doors were to be opened to them.
wxdruid

Hm, no, I think just changing the title will work. Make it a common place to discuss what you want to do, invite others to participate, gather people in to participate.....

Say, I want to do this? Who wants to have fun with me? And so I will go and do that.... right now before work. (since I can't get here from work).

I really don't care what they say about me. The people I care about aren't saying them.
Exachix

What do you mean by Fun Gwen?

It's what I'm here to have. That's what anything about life is. Aiming to have fun.

What's the point if we don't?

Maybe we need to lower the restrictions a bit. That's Hypocritical coming from me, but hindsight is always 20/20.

I've always acted as if this place is a haven.
We have all our lives rushing around us, and we need somewhere to sit back and relax.

To Be honest. That's what I want this place to be (I may be differing from other's opinions...).

This is Town 3.0
Town 1.# was on Gitp.
Town 2.# was Collective Heights. I drop in on there every so often. That truly is deaded.
Town 3 is here.

We tried to continue, and now it's changed.

Third Time Lucky - Only works when we try.

Let's try guys. Let's be more relaxed about this, and have fun.
wxdruid

Yes, I have fun here, I enjoy it. I like what my characters are currently involved in and I will stay.

Say what you want changed (specifics) and if it's in my power I will do it. Otherwise I will talk to the other people who can change it.
Exachix

Right. I'm not making a unilatteral Decision here.

Guys, the next posts should be:
What don't we like about town.
What should be changed.
Vael

I woke up this morning feeling drastically better about myself than I did yesterday.
I am just going to make this one amendment to what I said:
I am going to quit, unless the majority of town wishes to see me still in charge. If you guys would rather see someone else, go ahead and put them forwards, I'm not going to complain one little bit (unless I can't find a way to transfer being the One True Admin, which I'm kinda wondering about). But I don't feel I should just chicken out if I'm admin you really want to see.

1) What I don't like about this Town:
Fragmented.
I've said this for a long time.
I've noticed lots of people agreeing with me here.
Honestly, there is one very simple, very easy solution:
Post in Trog's. Or, if not Trog's, we need some other central meeting point. Because honestly? That's really the biggest difference between Old Town and Enupnion.
It isn't hard. It's not bad. And stop worrying what will happen- YES, things will happen to your character! They may be good or bad! Or really bad! But you know what? SOMETHING is better than NOTHING.

2) Even when people are invited, they quickly go back to Old Town.
I'm not sure what the problem is here, but I'm guessing it has to do with the fact that they can't get involved with anything, due to the fact that they haven't gotten involved already, and Trog's isn't active.

3) Overpowered characters.
No, I'm not complaining about overpowered characters. I'm complaining about people complaining about them.
They've always been here.
They're part of our freedom in making characters.
They'll always be here- and if you really feel someone is impinging on your freedom with an overpowered character, then talk to them or a moderator.
They're a part of Town just as much as any other character, I don't think we really have the right to just say "no."


So really, all I want you to do is go to Trog's and stop worrying.
Deadly

I don't see why you should step down, Vael, so you have my vote/support as admin.

And I agree with your points, people need to play less with themselves and more with everyone else. And stop complaining so much, because that really is the only problem we have, I think, and it's not that serious if we just try to improve. There are few things quite as frustrating and tiring as logging on and seeing this much complaining

Anyway, I'm ranting again, sorry, I just get tired easily right now
NecroPaladin

NecroPaladin wrote:
I like order. I don't like fascism. This is ironic, given my title. I'm protesting the authority, not the basic idea of some basis that we should all follow.

And, as stated last post, I'm beyond even caring. My standards are too high.


UWAAAAH! Only now do I realize that I insinuated in this post that Vael was a fascist! I didn't mean that in the least. I meant that all the rules and regulations with only a few set people to uphold them, as a concept, was getting a bit fascist. Sorry if you took it that way, Vael.

I'll put it simply; it's not that I want to see you out of power, Vael, it's just that I really wouldn't want to see anyone IN power, save in the rare instances to ban godmodders.
Kyrian

I want to see Vael stay as our Admin.
NecroPaladin

Shadow of the Sun wrote:
When I came here, I simply wanted somewhere where I could play without being godmodded, or having my characters stalked, where I didn't have to give myself an aneurysm trying to read someone's posts. I still do (although I'm willing to be lenient on spelling and punctuation...to an extent). But I don't want a place of such excessive organization that we lose our inherent chaos; the only thing I think I see as really beneficial is putting some penalty on godmodding.

HOWEVER. There is one other matter that I have to bring up: characters. If we make a New New Town, then I don't want to lose my characters here, or their history. One of my characters has had a child and is expecting more, another is soon to be a father, one of them is married, one is engaged...I don't want to lose these months of development on our parts for something completely new- I don't want a complete reboot. I want something more along the lines of buying a new system while keeping the old data. Another problem is integrating the two towns into one if we do that...

That is my (ineloquently expressed, I fear) opinion, for good or for ill.


Ah! Just read this. Well said, SotS.

Yeah, I was in a bad mood yesterday. I'm still pessimistic about the New Town, but I'm not about to give up just yet.
Fenric

I do not want to see another attempt at a forum. I agree with Exy: if we can't fix this one, we're not very likely to do better with a new one.

I do not want to go back to GITP. They are already seeing lag with the people who have already gone back. If we load them down again, I strongly suspect the entirety of SMBG will be shut down.
I left the old Town partly to help a cartoonist that I admire not suffer because of a game I was playing.

I have always been against the "invitation only" policy. I still am. I say again: open the user signup.

The plot registration, if you remember, was a response to a series of complaints that the "main players" were running so many plots that no one else could get a story in edgewise. I'm sorry we put that rule in, it has not have helped. But as Deadly pointed out - it's not like it is enforced, either: even I ignore it. Let's announce that "rule" to be defunct, change the title of the thread like Wxdruid suggested and move on.

Though not far...

What rules are you all concerned about? Do you want the god-modding restriction lifted? Or the inappropriate topic ban? Should we allow content stronger than PG-13? (Though honestly we'd get a solid "R - contains adult language, adult situations, brief nudity, and graphic violence" from MPAA already)

Somehow, I dobut that... No, it's the things in the Town Hall: The "rules that aren't rules" that get brought up there are a large portion of our trouble.

For the second time now, the entire idea of a "Town Council" is causing more trouble than it solves. We dumped it once, and I think we should dump it again.
Look, I know some of you like to RP politics: but can you please just be content to do it in the structured games and leave it there?

I have exactly one "real" rule I'd like to see eliminated: "passive godmodding" needs to be allowed. People must have the right to ignore players that they don't get along with. Yes, it's bad form, but sometimes it is the only thing that works. "Talk to a mod or admin" is not always practical in a timely fashion.

I have nothing more to say about Uber characters that I haven't said already. I chose to lead by example here: mine are gone.

Vael...

I had a long paragraph here, but I changed my mind.

I ask you to consider this:

No matter the protests, no matter how much you wish it were otherwise, no matter how valid the arguments that it should not be: Aesa will always irritate the players just as much as she irritates their characters.

Is it wise for the supreme site administrator to play a character whose main feature is that she irritates people?

Leaders are held to a higher standard than those they lead.
Seft Sirag

If at all possible, the lead-admin role should be passed to a separate account, simply titled "admin".

We could then have a team of moderators - including Vael, Soph, Fenric & WX Druid and at least two others - all with access to the main admin account as neccessary.

However, if this is not possible, I see no reason why Vael should not remain in the admin position.
Wukei

Vael said that he can't make a new admin account with all of the powers that he has. I don't think he'd abuse such powers, however. I think that a normal extra admin (such as Soph's account)is good enough, however, to continue with this site without issues.

But that's a good idea...secret moderators tend to do well, people that are always watching every thread and can moderate without people saying "well 'admin' doesn't like me, that's why I got in trouble."
Castaras

I've been lurking in both towns.

I tried posting in both.

Neither kept me hooked long enough to keep anything worthwhile going, or to drag me into the roleplaying again.

Old Town? It's too....Childish. No, not sure that's the right word...I don't know what the right word is, but it isn't anything I like.
One of the main turn offs was when AMEN tried to take over old town.
In come my small pie army.
Along come, I quote(approx. Trying not to remember), "6 million gunners".
Just that level of overpowering and godlikeness is too much.
Get your characters and let us have fun as well. "I dodge. I absorb damage. I nuke you for 1029237 damage." all the time wasn't fun. Wasn't fun at all.

New Town? It was too orderly. You(Can't really say "We"...I'm not really part of Town at the moment...) have all your nice little rules telling us what to do.
In a way, it's too restricting.
The other problem I had was that I'm kinda nervous about introducing new characters...nervous that I'm going to run into some plot and ruin it all for everyone. Lots of the characters have their well established cliques, and I'm very nervous of breaking into them.


I can identify quite a few problems...
- The lag on Giantitp. Not going back there.
- Overpoweredness(Which I'm kinda guilty of...<.<). It makes it less fun for everyone.
- Cliques. I for one am nervous of my characters walking into it...
- The rules. Screw the rules, this is Town.

While I can't think of any solution to the Cliques, and haven't really looked much at the rules, I have had a small idea for at least temporarily getting rid of magic, god-like powers, and other sorts of magicy stuff. Which could bring powerlevels down dramatically - Most of the high powered people are high powered because of their magical abilities.

Probably wouldn't work though, but eh.

Rules? Get rid of plot registration. I agree with Wxdruid, just have a plot discussion thread. That's the only thing I can think of at the moment, you more active roleplayers probably have a better idea about this than me.

Open door? Sounds good. As long as we have rules(Hypocrite? Me? Nah...) about not being a complete ass or flaming everyone else, I'm happy with that. I get along with most people.

Anything else I missed out? Don't think so. I think this answers everything...

And wow, these sorta things always turn out longer than I expected them to be.

Sorry if I'm repeating everything, I skimmed through most of this thread...>.>

EDIT: Secret Mods would work. People who are trusted to keep things running while staying quietly in the background.
Vael

Admin account activation has been disabled. There is still an activation process, but it is done by the user to prevent bots.
Because we hattesssss bots, precious. Gollum gollum.

Plot registration has been changed to plot discussion.

The old Editor Admin account which I used for testing out forum styles will be changed to be a generic Admin account that all of the Admin/mods can use.
atreyu_the_masked_llama

(ooooh. I've got a terrible idea! For every new user who stays for over a week, I'll email a personally autographed picture to them. Its sure to bring in the girls age 5-8 demographic who all want a pony.)

Also, great. I admit I was for the invitation policy, but after hearing about people who were excluded from it, I recant my beliefs and will force myself to listen to Hinder's CD in self-inflicted repentance while watching Chris Crocker video's on You Tube.
Exachix

So far:

Abolish Plot things - As it's not used. Widely Agreed to
Screw the Rules (I have Money.) Sort-of Agreed to. Keep some rules.
Set Door to "Open" - Widely Agreed to

'Hidden' Mods - Suggested, and sort of agreed to

Town Council - Fen Suggested, and I semi-Agree to
Iames suggested a 'boundary' between them.

Mods and Admins
Seft wrote:
If at all possible, the lead-admin role should be passed to a separate account, simply titled "admin".

We could then have a team of moderators - including Vael, Soph, Fenric & WX Druid and at least two others - all with access to the main admin account as neccessary.


Why not make them all Admins =) if Vael (or anyone) can't work out how to not do it.

Or the Editor thing...

New forum
Nope. Please?

No complaining about Overpowerred Characters

Can I change this to:
No complaining about ##
We're all freinds. If we have a problem, can we resolve it without ranting about it?
Vael

Exachix wrote:
Can I change this to:
No complaining about ##
We're all freinds. If we have a problem, can we resolve it without ranting about it?

We're not freinds. We're friends. God, Exachix, how COULD you spell improperly? This ruins everything!

I'm sick of everyone spelling wrong, and messing up the forums with it, and now it is all going to fall apart and-OHGODARABIDHYENAISEATINGMYFACEOFFAARGGGGGGGHHHH.

Rolling Eyes Wink
Castaras

*whacks Vael with squeaky club*

Bad Vael. Go to your room.

@Exy - That list looks good. And the part about "Not complaining about ##" looks better than the "Not complaining about overpowered stuff".
Vael

Castaras wrote:
*whacks Vael with squeaky club*

Bad Vael. Go to your room.

@Exy - That list looks good. And the part about "Not complaining about ##" looks better than the "Not complaining about overpowered stuff".

*squeaky*
Meep!
*runs off*

But seriously, I like that list too.
And we ARE talking about getting some new moderators.
We're just being very, very sloooooowwwwwlllliikkkeeee...

Speaking of which, I'd really like to have an odd number of moderators, but that means we either need to add one (eeeeek) or three (kinda a lot, in my opinion.)
Does anyone have thoughts on numbers?
Wukei

One extra one sounds like more than enough, imo.
Exachix

Depends on 'Active' Forum members.

The more Members.
The More Mods. (makes sense)

It depends on the pressure on the current mods really =).
Castaras

Good Vael.
*keeps squeaky club out just in case*

I'd vote 1 extra mod. But yeah...that'd mean a large list to pick from...I know quite a few people here who I think would probably do well as a mod. But eh. *shrugs*
Seft Sirag

For now, I'd say just the one - see how we go now we're open-door, and if we have problems later on, then recruit extras as and when we need them.
Exachix

I'd say a total of 5 would be ok.

(Currently: 2 Admins, and 2 Mods, I think. + the Extra one.)

And yeah.
If you need it get more.
The Chilli God

Well, letting ourselves be open door isn't going to do much unless we actually tell the others that we're open door.

...Who wants to be the lucky guy to go down to Old Town, explain the whole situation, and open the doors properly?
Sophistemon

I can do that.
atreyu_the_masked_llama

Hmmmmm......I ....ummm....well, it may be narcissism but I'm pretty sure I'm liked by most of them. I wouldn't be afraid to open discussion over there.

EDIT (or Soph can do it. Go Soph!)
Sophistemon

We need a determinative consensus, first.

I am loath to do anything before I know that I represent the majority of everyone here.
Wukei

I think Llama'd be the best choice. He's the one that wanted to invite everyone over here, and he's a pretty neutral party.
Castaras

Agreed.

I'd second Atreyu, simply because he is well known as being one of the friendliest in the playground and Enupnion.
Sophistemon

As you wish. I just thought that I'd make the offer.
Xaspian

I vote for Llama, although I guess that other people chipping in wouldn't hurt.
Vael

How about a joint Soph and Llama thing?
Deadly

I'm still rather wary of just opening completely up and letting anyone in, but I suppose if I'm the only one I'll have to accept and see how it goes

I vote for the Llama as our ambassador too.... Ambassador Llama, sounds good Smile
Orange Zergling

All of our moderator problems can be solved with one easy step.

Make everybody a mod. Wink Tremble mortals and despair... Doom has come to this world.

Open door... I guess I'm okay with it. Instead of total deletion, I recommend moving 'offensive' topics to the moderator/invisible forum, just in case they need to be revisited. I vote Atreyu as well. Actually, I'd vote for anyone except me. Even Nevrmore.
Moozy

*pokes through thread tentatively... sees it's all serious and long and confusing and so runs away*

Slightly more on topic, I don't know anymore either...

Razz Didn't really help, did it? Sorry.
Vael

Well, I've already been deleting those old topics. And please don't discuss them, or I'll have to delete THIS thread too. =P
Wukei

Deadly wrote:
I'm still rather wary of just opening completely up and letting anyone in, but I suppose if I'm the only one I'll have to accept and see how it goes

I vote for the Llama as our ambassador too.... Ambassador Llama, sounds good Smile


Actually, I don't agree either...but it's going to happen, so why not say "fine, here's who I'd vote to make it open"
Castaras

Been thinking about this...

Just a thought...If we open up completely, might we get a bit of "New Town v Old Town hate?

*shrugs* Not trying to pessimistic...but that might be a slight problem if it was to occur...
Vael

As I told to Sophistemon when he broached the topic with me:

I support opening Enupnion, but I DO want to respect everyone else's opinion.
Personally, I would be fine with continuing with the minor change I implemented: not having to ask a moderator to invite someone. This way we won't have tons of people rushing in, and yet we'll have no more arguments about who gets in or not.
Deadly

Vael wrote:
As I told to Sophistemon when he broached the topic with me:

I support opening Enupnion, but I DO want to respect everyone else's opinion.
Personally, I would be fine with continuing with the minor change I implemented: not having to ask a moderator to invite someone. This way we won't have tons of people rushing in, and yet we'll have no more arguments about who gets in or not.


I'll support that instead. As long as there's some form of "approval" by someone already here it's not too bad.
Castaras

Vael wrote:
As I told to Sophistemon when he broached the topic with me:

I support opening Enupnion, but I DO want to respect everyone else's opinion.
Personally, I would be fine with continuing with the minor change I implemented: not having to ask a moderator to invite someone. This way we won't have tons of people rushing in, and yet we'll have no more arguments about who gets in or not.


I agree with this.


Supporting this over the completely opening up.
atreyu_the_masked_llama

I disagree with "no need for mod invites" vs "open forum." I think one of our problems is stagnation of people. We need new people, they are exciting and fun and under the current "Invitation" system, they show up, go "Neat, but I'm justgonna stick with GITP" and leave.

If we don't openly invite everyone, then we'll still seem elitiest, maybe not as much, but some. Lets share this Town.

And ummm....I'm flattered, about being the ambassador, but I don't know what to say or how to say it. Any pointers?
wxdruid

LLama, sweet LLama, it mostly involves being your sweet self.
Timberwolf

I read the 1st page of this thread. Then I left and went and played badminton because I was late, won a couple of games and lost the rest. Then I went and had a smoke which as you lot know I'm trying to give up. I spent that time working out my response to this thread. As some of you may have noticed, I tend not to stick my nose into forum affairs, being of the firm opinion that as long as things keep running then those who have an interest in running them will do better than me. So, the very fact that I was prepared to spend 3 hours mulling over my response should say that I wanted to contribute something helpful and worthwhile.

I was very glad to get back and find that it probably won't be needed and that thinking has largely gone round to, as per Exy's list, what can loosely be described as Wolfie's Code for a Happy Forum Life. This code has served me well on several forums. It is as follows and if anyone would like my opinions about how it could be applied here and now, well, you don't need me, think about it for yourselves.

Spoiler:


Do not be a tool, think about stuff before you do it.



As to the open door policy, the way ahead as I see it is simple. We open the door and we let the world in. If anyone refuses to follow my simple precept up there, then that is what the ban hammer is for. Invitations, let us assume that people are not going to invite people at random and will, instead, show a touch of sense. Cassie's thought on New Town vs Old Town ? Simple, as soon as Rex opens his idiotic trap to say anything that is unpleasant, then an admin hits him with the ban hammer.

We don't need rules, we don't need planning, we don't need to be rigid. We need understanding of one simple thing. Throughout history, the most successful forms of government have tended to be benevolent dictatorships, where decisions are centralised. But there is one thing that your benevolent dictator learns early or else is extremely short lived.

It's in the spoiler.
The Herald

I also want llama to go tell people we're opening our doors.

That would mean that the verification process would have to be automated.

Also, about making the distinction for IC/OOC Council clearer:

I'm not sure exactly what the OOC council is for anymore, what with all the changes.

The IC Council should make IC laws - the ones enforced by the Police. If the Council exists IC, then the process of getting onto the council should be IC.
Geomancer

Okay well reading through this thread has got me a lot more optimistic about new town then I was yesterday.

As far as I can tell a few things still need to get hashed out. Most importantly I think is what the rules for this town will be.

I'd really like to say "Get rid of all the rules and let people do what they want. If people Godmod or UberGodmod just ignore them." Rules should just be polite suggestions in my book. Once this place is open to all we have to be careful that we aren't banning people because they are just plain old bad role players rather then godmodders or something like that.

That leads me to another question. Who deals with banning? Should we give whatever admin/mod that encounters the problem right to ban? Should admins/mods have to vote on it? Should normal posters get a say? I have no definitive ideas but I'd be leaning more towards a group decision... Although the idea of banning in the first place seems off to me. Banning should definitely be an absolute last, last resort.

Blech. Ideas. Blech.
wxdruid

In terms of banning, it should be a last resort and not the first thing we do. Warnings first, banning last. I think we were leaning towards an odd number of mods/admins for deciding on such things.

I think we still need the basic rules, it keeps a little bit of order.

In terms of voting IC, I'm against it. It should be the players who decide.

The IC is for IC laws/rules/policies. The OOC council is for the stuff that goes on behind the scenes.
NecroPaladin

Vael wrote:
As I told to Sophistemon when he broached the topic with me:

I support opening Enupnion, but I DO want to respect everyone else's opinion.
Personally, I would be fine with continuing with the minor change I implemented: not having to ask a moderator to invite someone. This way we won't have tons of people rushing in, and yet we'll have no more arguments about who gets in or not.


Completely agreed. I really, seriously disliked having who I wanted to RP with being not my decision. In fact, that's probably what got me bitching about everything in the first place. A fine idea, if not a perfect compromise.
The Chilli God

And then, who's going to be invited by the rest of us if we do this "Invite not necessarily by Mod" thing?
What's to stop any one of us, even maybe one of those few that do get invited as a result of this change from simply posting the link onto the Old Town and saying "All aboard!"

The same thing that's stopped us from doing that so far? The same thing that has completely staunched the flow of new players?
This isn't a compromise, in my opinion. This is just a different way of keeping the same as we always have. The power is still in our hands, to choose who gets in, to choose all the terms and all the rules (however laid back they may currently be). It doesn't work that way. We actually need to offer that power to the people of Old Town to choose for themselves whether or not to cross that frontier. Maybe then, they will be more encouraged to actually make that choice, rather than join for a few days, decide that it's just too stagnant, and walk back as has happened often. Or, worse, let that hostile attitude that has them taking us for snobs fester even more, as the time goes on. The longer it goes, the less repairable the damage will be.

What are you afraid of?
You afraid that all the godmodders will flood in and ruin the straight beauty of New Town? Why? We can actually threaten action against them, here!
You afraid that it's too big of a change to make all at once? Why? No time like the present.

The way I figure it, if you're in for a penny, you're in for the entire cost of the investment. And if this is all that is going to result from this discussion, then I'm going to sit back and wait for when something slips up or someone finally realizes that what you solved today was a pittance.
Ms Elaneous

I say we let them all in. Screw invites. Do warnings, short-term bans, and full bans after that if they are necessary. I doubt it'll get that far even.
Timberwolf

Sign me up with the E person.
DeBunny

Yes.
Si.
Aye.
Various other affirmative phrases.

I like the last few posts.

....BEHOLD THE NONDESCRIPTIVENESS OF MY POST!
Draken Frosthand

*pokes*

<<

>>

Ahem... Good Afternoon, some of you know me, Draken, and most really have no idea who the heck I am, maybe some vague memory, but other than that, just stactic on the screen.

Well, I joined the Town arround May of this year, a bit before this forum was started, and I am currently one of the players of Old Town, and according to wxdruid, a member of the current leadership (Her own words, I was actually flatered).

Right, done with the presentations. Vael invited me a few days ago, and I gave a run arround the forum, nice place (actually the only things I read were Khaerathain [sorry if I mispelled SotS] and a few other threads, most OOC, like Necro's artwork [excelent, by the way] and some random things.). Only reason i didn't post before is because I wanted this avatar done before.

Then, I stumped on this thread, and wanted to give in a few words.

First of all, someone spoke about how Rex demonizes you in the old town, yes he does, but he speaks for himself alone and no one else, heck even Nightwing is happy with some of the old people that have been returning.

Now, about boosting the town, I spoke to Vael, wxdruid, and clearly, this place is te only one were it is possible to deal with troublemakers, it is not possible to do so in GitP, and as a matter of fact, the "invite only" thing was a horrible idea, I know it, I participated of another project that started as "invite only" and currently most of the people who started the project aren't even speaking to each other anymore due to internal conflicts that would hardly have happened if new blood poured in constantly (in fact, the lack of new blood was one of the problems that caused breakdowns).

So, on the last page, people were voting aout making Sophistemon and Atreyu into ambassadors between the towns, a good idea, might I add, using GitP to recruit people is a good method, and it is actually possible to fuse the two, after dealing with the problems, both structural and human ones.

As a matter of fact, this post made by Ms. E sumarizes all I think to be good ideas.

Quote:
I say we let them all in. Screw invites. Do warnings, short-term bans, and full bans after that if they are necessary. I doubt it'll get that far even.


Well, that is pretty much it. I could say a lot of things, but i hardly know most of you, and some -could- be misinterpreted as offense, or just lack of education of my part.

Bah, screw it, all I really wanted to say were three things:

1- I agree with Ms Elaenous

2- Don't pay to much attention to what Rex says.

3- I apologise to you all for many of the extremely offensive coments made by Bookboy, he is a bit childish, even considering he is a child.
(I don't even know why I am doing this third, it is not really my fault and I have nothing to do with him... But I really think I should.)

Now, I will see if I find the Woods thread. I have been thinking of a magnificent entrance to my main character, something I really didn't do the first time because I wasn't sure of his development and didn't have my current grasp of the language (Just check the location to see the meaning of this last line.)
wxdruid

the mods and admins are in the process of finalizing exactly what LLama will do on GitP Town in terms of talking to them. (Yes, I'm pushing them a little so we can get this underway and we're deciding what exactly we'll do with rude or inconsiderate people. If you encounter any? Please tell a mod or admin, it's what we're here for).
Darkblade

I suggest we use Draken as an ambasador. He is about as know in Olde Town as Llama and they trust him. Looking around he has interacted and generally met with positive feed back from all the Olde Townies.
Draken Frosthand

Sounds good to me Darkblade.

Umm... I must go check the meaning of Canuck... Never saw the word before.
Destro Yersul

It means Canadian.

It's also the name of the Vancouver Hockey team. Which I know because, despite not following hockey, they were in the headlines for three freaking months last year.

Anyways, good to have you here. Ms. E is right, we need some new people around here.
Draken Frosthand

Thanks, unfortunatelly I probably wont show up here (or in GitP for the record) until Sunday, damn it.

We got a longer weekend here in Brazil (Children's day tomorrow) and my parents decided to take a small trip to the countryside, and I think there will be no internet.

Well, be back on sunday. Then I will stop procrastinating and get to some writing.

Oh, yes, if anyone is interested, this thread got some of the best textwork I have did lately.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59437

Heck, I feel evil just for reading >>
wxdruid

The rules have been made a bit more precise, so there should be fewer questions about when the line has been crossed and the authority of an Admin or Mod. LLama is our official ambassador to GitP Town and he can talk to whomever he wishes, wherever he wishes. If anyone else wants to talk to people that is fine as well.

If anyone has any problems with anyone, feel free to talk to any admin or mod, it's what we're here for.

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