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I don't know anymore...
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NecroPaladin



Joined: 02 Jun 2007
Posts: 4413


Location: Yes.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: I don't know anymore...  Reply with quote

I don't know if I have any faith left in the New Town. It was a glorious prospect when we created it, but...I don't know anymore.

On one side of the coin, we were trying to make a utopian little society for our characters. We were trying to stop the godmodders and immature idiots that so plague our plot threads. It was a crusade with good reason, and I believed in it. I do not any longer.

Let's face it.

We may not have idiots anymore, but we're not much better. We've torn ourselves to pieces with rules when we could have had guidelines. In fact, guidelines would have been more appropriate, because the rules are ignored regardless. We've become in many ways hypocritical. The way I look at it, I may very well move back to the Old Town, unless we become open-door and just reinvent the New Town as a copy of the Old Town with less lag. Even so, there's so much bitterness towards us New-Towners (most of it without reason, because as I said, we were in the right, and we did what we could to provide an enjoyable experience for ourselves) that even if we did become open-door I'm not sure that anyone would want in anymore.

We're failing. For a number of reasons, but we're failing.

We didn't need a centralized power to begin with. Attempts at power just made things go worse and worse. Our admins, rather than simply enforcing the rules, sometimes went out of their way either to create/propose rules that they'd like to see, or shoot down ones that might prove detrimental to their characters.

A note: I hate ubers. I'm sure that I've mentioned that all too often before. I've decided that it's time to stop whining about it. As such, if I don't want to deal with a character that I percieve as "uber," I'm going to be a petty jackass and ignore said character. I'm tired of scaling my characters to be more and more ludicrously powerful to avoid getting fragged the first time they get in a fight. We're never, ever going to solve that problem as a group so I'm going to solve it just for my own sake.

Vael was caught in a very bad position to begin with. As our founder, all of the pressure was on him. Ultimately, he ended up just looking more and more desperate and hypocritical, to the point where I and others held no respect whatsoever for him, but he was also under a sheer rock face of stress.

Not helping this was Rex Idiotarum, who seemed to go out of his way to demonize and badmouth New Towners. Rex is a flamer, through and through. He's an intelligent flamer, but he's a flamer. Vael let him get under his skin (who wouldn't?), and their little blood feud ended up taking a turn for the worse when us New Towners split off. Vael was our de facto leader, and as such Rex was able to categorize all of us under the big umbrella that is the shit he throws at Vael. And as such, we are now entirely despised by a large amount of Old Towners, easily swayed by a boy who spews fire and brimstone with no real logic in mind.

I'm sorry, Vael.

I really am.

And I'm sorry, Old Town, if any Old Towners read this. Rebonack and Geo may say that we were doomed to begin with, due to our closed-door policy...

But we weren't.

We fucked ourselves over.

We're still fucking ourselves over.

I've accepted that.

I'm going to continue posting in the New Town. I'm not abandoning it. But know that I'm not enjoying myself nearly as much as I think I should be. I'm really having a lot of second thoughts that I don't think I ever should have considered.

I shall make a more permanent decision in due time. That is all.
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Geomancer
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about anyone else, but I am certainly feeling a lot of the same things you are Necro. We weren't doomed from the start except that we doomed ourselves with rules and regulations that basically choked us to death. In my opinion a town were you have a thread to regulate plots isn't a town at all.

I recently started posting in old town again on Rebonack's advice. I am already having more fun there then I did in New Town except in the very beginning when we were all inspired by having this new lag free place to roleplay in.

In fact if it wasn't for the fact that the Conservatory is still here, I probably wouldn't be posting in town at all anymore.

I don't think an open door policy will help at all though. If we open our doors to old town we'll be lucky to get five people. They don't like us over there and for good reason. We've all proven ourselves to be supremest snobs to some degree. Keeping people out because they godmod I can understand, but keeping them out because they just aren't good roleplayers yet is what killed us in my opinion.

I think New Town is going to keep dwindling. I don't think open doors or anything else is going to revive it.
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Ms Elaneous



Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been afraid of this all summer and was hoping it was just summer.

It's not.

Somewhere, we lost the randomness and fun and got caught up in a lot of stupid rules, power struggles, and personal feuds. We lost the life's blood that was a large number of people all doing different things and all being interested in one another. Awesome plots I've seen fall because people don't get out and get involved because their characters are simply busy. We needed more people of all kinds, doing silly, stupid, serious, and storyful stuff all along.

And this is truly depressing. I can't hardly stand it, but it's the truth. This place is dying because we've cut off all circulation with these rules.
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Nevrmore
Spawn of Rorschach


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of this sounds like a pretty sweet plot for a story.

Just saying.
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Rebonack
Elder Good


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's pretty much been said.

It should have been open to begin with and we should have just ban-hammered the idiots. And it's really too late to fix that now. As I've told other people, I came here to help with the loading issue.

And that's mostly fixed.

Hence, I'm not going to be posting on the new Town. For me, it has served its purpose.

As for why it died?

Totally a lack of Descartes.
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Nevrmore
Spawn of Rorschach


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: A crazy nightmare and loving it

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS ON ME, REBONACK!

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with [mod powers]. Who's gonna do it? You? You, [Necropaladin]? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for [Geomancer], and you curse the [New Town]. You have that luxury. The luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Geomancer's] death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because, deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. The [New Town] uses words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone for a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said, "Thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you [get off your ass and make a post.] Either way, I don't give a damn about what you think you're entitled to!

I memorized this for my Speech class freshman year, word.
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Darkblade
Nounverber in the Town


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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Location: Why should I tell you?

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.
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Nevrmore
Spawn of Rorschach


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: A crazy nightmare and loving it

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkblade wrote:
I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.

Thus is human nature.
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NecroPaladin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nevrmore wrote:
DON'T YOU DARE PUT THIS ON ME, REBONACK!

YOU WANT THE TRUTH?!

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with [mod powers]. Who's gonna do it? You? You, [Necropaladin]? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for [Geomancer], and you curse the [New Town]. You have that luxury. The luxury of not knowing what I know. That [Geomancer's] death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth because, deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. The [New Town] uses words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone for a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd rather you just said, "Thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you [get off your ass and make a post.] Either way, I don't give a damn about what you think you're entitled to!

I memorized this for my Speech class freshman year, word.


I value the serious and constructive commentary, Nevr. I would say more, but I've completely run out of spite.
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atreyu_the_masked_llama
Fuzziest in the Town


Joined: 05 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darkblade wrote:
I undertsand what you all say but you all have your stances against the idiots.

One of our mistakes was the closed door policy and banning the 'idiots'.

I disliked Nightwing, Bookboy and the rest as much as any of you but they did do one thing right.

The gave as a comon enemy. We wanted to rid our selves of the god-modding idiots.

When they were gone, we had to find something else to get upset at.

We got upset about ubers, about little god-moddings, about lack of organization, etc.

We were at each other's throats we made stupid rules. We lost site of what the Town is about FUN.

I'm not giving up on us here. I'm not giving up on the Old Town either.

I can only hope we learn our lesson.


I second the Canuck!
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Nevrmore
Spawn of Rorschach


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: A crazy nightmare and loving it

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just think you're making way too big a deal about this.

Oh no, Rex is badmouthing us on a forum. The political climate is rapidly expanding, soon we might have to declare war.

Have there been mistakes made on this forum? Sure, there's no arguing that, but you're acting like each one was a mortal sin against you.

You argue against the closed door policy, even though, if my memory serves, you voted against opening Enupnion to everyone when Vael proposed it weeks (months?) ago. If you're going to blame him for that, blame yourself too, buddy.

Ubers; We all hate them. Stop acting like Enupnion is the only forum in the world where they occur. That's all I've to say about that.

Anarchy of the forums is going to end badly. You think Vael and Sophie and whoever else should step down? It might work better for awhile. Just like you thought that New Town worked better for awhile. But Darkblade hit the nail right on the head. Soon enough, you're going to find something else to bitch about.

I like you, Necropaladin. You're an awesome artist and a fun RPer, but your anger is misplaced and I feel like you're just accepting the shit other people are shoveling.

Take a step off the soap box.

There, is that serious enough for you?
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NecroPaladin



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Location: Yes.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'd much prefer that.

On a seperate note, I did mention that I took up the 'crusade,' as I put it, when it started. I was pro-closed-door.

Now, I am not.

And I'm not saying ubers only happen on Enupnion. I'm just saying that I felt the need to say that I'm no longer acknowledging them unless I believe it acceptable regardless of whether I quit the Town or not.



On yet another seperate note, I am only on the soap box because I and a few others felt this way (you know who you are), and I figured I should write it because they had been less of the angry skeptic type in the past and it suited me better.
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Orange Zergling
Cerebrate in the Town


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: in ur bse, kilin ur doodz

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am also starting to get some of this feeling. I mean, seriously, Plot Registration? What the fuck? While we're at it, lets switch to D&D and require people to fully stat out their characters. I understand guidelines like "If there's another invasion going on, it'd be a good idea to wait till it's done," rather than "One invasion at a time. No exceptions.".

Not relevant, but I too have a very, very, very strong dislike for OMFG UBER characters. I know she's been around waaay before Enupnion, but Aesa is looking more and more like the representation of "I'm the admin, I do whatever the fuck I want." Sunn, not much better. Gent... Gent doesn't fight, he isn't a total prick, but it still toes the line in my opinion.
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DeBunny
Plushie Shepherd


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: The hive of the xenomorph swarm.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just say that the current state (and degrading state, it would seem) of my beloved roleplaying escape makes me just a touch sad.
I won't claim to understand exactly why we're falling apart, as I'm sure it has been already stated, or close perhaps, but it would seem that we are.

If you expect some drawn out paragraph describing my feeling and theories on this topic, I'm afraid I cannot supply that.

Only this: I am sad.
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Hoseki
May I Eat You?


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
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Location: The story within a story

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Side note- I get really nervous when people start going on about how they hate Sunn, and they hate Aesa, and they hate Gent, because I'm never sure if Gatamu, Hoseki, and the other hoppers are being included in the classification of 'ubers.' They're not gods, they don't make second and twentieth instances of themselves, but what can you really do about it if Gatamu decides he doesn't need your permission to eat you?)

I don't know why everyone else came here- to escape the lag, to get away from godmodders and bad roleplayers, whatever- but I came here because by the time Real Life had released me, everyone with whom I enjoyed playing with Back in the Day was here, if they were anywhere. Sure, this Trog's isn't as busy, there are some people I hadn't known, but Hoseki looked upon Enupnion and declared it good.

I still have fun with New Town- Calpurnia's plot slowly moves forward, Hoseki has excess drama, Valathe is still obsessed with numbers. Not to say that New Town is completely perfect- yeah, there are rough spots- but for me, at least, this is a good place where I don't have to stress about Real Life.

If there are problems, there are probably solutions. If people think rules are choking us, then let's talk. We're the mature ones, yes? That generally implies that we can discuss and reason our way through problems rather than handing out Big Books o' Rules.
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Vael
Endless Fount of Characters


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this oddly similar to the thread I posted a while back about enjoying old town more than the new town...
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NecroPaladin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As of a few minutes ago, I just figured,

Fuck it.

I'm going to roleplay.

If the New Town collapses, I'm going to roleplay in the Old Town.

So be it.
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Vael
Endless Fount of Characters


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha... here it is:

Vael wrote:
As some of you know, I have created a character in Old Town.
As some of you also know, I have been greatly disturbed by the fact that Town doesn't seem quite as fun as it used to be.

The reason I bring these two things up is because I noticed, to my astonishment (and possibly a bit of horror) I was having more fun playing in old Town that in new Town.
...
That said something to me.
Something has been lost here. I don't know what, I don't know why, but a little voice inside of me whispers an answer that I don't like.

: We've become a bunch of stuffy gits who need to get over themselves and have fun.

Yeah, going into old Trog's will cause Nightwing to send a guy with a gun to shoot you, or his infamous Truck to pretend to be a dog and prance around you. Yeah, a lot of the people there are pretty bad in some aspects of following the rules. Yeah, a ton of them have writing and story telling that would give english majors heart attacks.
But you know what? They don't care. They have fun, they acknowledge the other players (even if they dislike it), they plot, they do things spontaneously, randomly, destructively... and they all enjoy it. They all, in their chaos, work together as a whole and create their Town and have fun interacting.

As I turn my gaze back at us, I see a fragmented, 'organized' Town that tidily asks permission of each other to even toss fireballs. We argue over whether someone should have potent powers, or whether someone should do their plot or not. We don't interact with each other out of sheer politeness and acknowledgement of the rules that we have so prettily set up, and thus we are divided, ignore what is going on with other characters, fail to interact with each other, and lose what our roleplaying is all about.

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I felt I had puzzled this out in my mind, I was rather ashamed. Not that I had been 'beaten' by the people of Old Town, but ashamed of myself for losing sight of what really was the goal of all of this: To have fun.
Even Nightwing, of all people, seemed to understand this better than I did... hell, his bizarre, ever changing, godmodding, insane characters have honestly provided me more fun than I have had in a long time here. It made me a bit sad, to tell you the truth. Sad that I had been too stuck up to see how much we actually needed those kind of elements- the whirlwind of chaos, the unexpected encounters... something that made you actually think about how your character would respond and interact.

I'm not suggesting we invite all of the people we left behind. I'm not even going to say that I got this correct- for all I know the people here could be still enjoying Town and dread the sort of chaos I speak of. But I think I've gotten a glimpse at the 'red tape' Geomancer was speaking about. Why he had lost interest in Town. It has happened to me, and I haven't even noticed the transition until the silly people in Old Town showed it to me.

I hope this helps something, or someone.
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NecroPaladin



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like order. I don't like fascism. This is ironic, given my title. I'm protesting the authority, not the basic idea of some basis that we should all follow.

And, as stated last post, I'm beyond even caring. My standards are too high.
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Nevrmore
Spawn of Rorschach


Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: A crazy nightmare and loving it

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nevrmore decides to forego anything more he was going to say, signs, and exits stage left.

He would like to thank everyone for attending the comedy.
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Vael
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you know what I say?
Fuck it.
I'm tired of being in charge, and though I like it here, you guys obviously don't like my decisions. I'm tired of making them too, because no matter what I say, SOMEONE gets mad at me.

Anyone else want a shot? Cause I quit.
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Seft Sirag
Beskydaflugiousmoderflank


Joined: 13 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh* It seems things deteriorated in the half-hour or so it took me to write the following, kind of making it null-and-void now, but I'll put this in anyway.

Advanced warning - this got a little all-over-the-place/ranty/blathering due to it currently being about 4am and the fact I'm currently suffering from some throat bug thing (which happens to be keeping me up =/) anyway...

Quote:
Only this: I am sad.


I second this, and what Hoseki said.

In my current state, as almost a lurker, the rules and politics are far beyond me - I just turn up as and when I can to post a couple of lines that go nowhere, affect very few, and achieve little, letting the debates and conversations go on above my head.

Having said that, things like this worry me. Whilst you're all still working to improvbe this place, I feel that the PRing environment is secure still. But as soon as this sparks again, I start to lose people I could one day potentially RP with.

We're gaining very few to no new people, we've lost a lot of old friendly faces and it looks like we may be set to lose more. I'm starting to worry that I may drop in one day, to find that everyone's moved on, or back to GitP Town.

As far as I'm concerned, if that point comes, my short-lived RPing days are over with. Because of my situation regarding university, I'd seriosuly considered retiring all my characters from Old Town even before people started to disappear, and wasn't intending to start doing anything similar again.

However, I was delighted when Vael finally got round to inviting me over here - it felt almost like coming home after a long time away - I felt that I'd left too much unfinished before, and was glad of a chance to continue almost where I'd left off. At the time, I had high hopes for this place, and I still do.

It hasn't been a year yet - maybe (read "Pete Hopes") we just need a little more time to sort out the odd kink here and there.

One thing's for certain, though. I'm not going back to Old Town.
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Ms Elaneous



Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: Sky World Lvl 3

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if a new town was made, not the same as Enupnion? That opened all the doors to new people? None of this ridiculous invite business. That was wrong from the beginning, I now see.

Also, the increased Old Town flux has started slowing down the GiantITP forums again. We need a separate space. What are your thoughts?
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atreyu_the_masked_llama
Fuzziest in the Town


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think your idea has merit, Ms E. Care to expound on it further?
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NecroPaladin



Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Location: Yes.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ms Elaneous wrote:
What if a new town was made, not the same as Enupnion? That opened all the doors to new people? None of this ridiculous invite business. That was wrong from the beginning, I now see.

Also, the increased Old Town flux has started slowing down the GiantITP forums again. We need a separate space. What are your thoughts?


I have shared my opinions via MSN, and find yours to my liking.

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